Is Russell Wilson on a HOF pace?

[TecmoSuperJoe]

6 hours ago, iknowcool said:

Anyone with a Steve Young-like career would absolutely still get in the Hall of Fame.

I think you'd have to have a Terrell Davis type of career in that time frame now. A few first team All Pros, Super Bowl ring, not miss a start, and be extremely dominant in the playoffs. Maybe.

[Raves]

4 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

I don’t think Brees was consistently a distant 3rd or 4th. Back in the day, it was the “big 4”, that could’ve gone in any order and not have been wrong. He may have found himself towards the bottom of those lists, but it was never “distant”.

I like Wilson a lot. He’s in the top of the second tier of QBs (after Brady, Rodgers). But he has not shared that top tier like Brees did. Not yet anyway.

Fair enough answer.  I was just curious because of your answer about not being held into the top 1 or 2 then they shouldn't be considered since Brees would technically fall into that category based on the majority of peoples lists, though I would obviously of disagreed with them.

[Soko]

13 minutes ago, Raves said:

Fair enough answer.  I was just curious because of your answer about not being held into the top 1 or 2 then they shouldn't be considered since Brees would technically fall into that category based on the majority of peoples lists, though I would obviously of disagreed with them.

I should maybe re-phrase: I don’t want a player that isn’t in conversation for best in the league as a HOF candidate.

Not that being best in the league at your position (Harrison Smith, Eric Berry, etc) make you a HOFer, but I personally don’t want second tier guys in the HOF just because they have good numbers/career accomplishments. 

[Bobby816]

If the would've beat the Pats that year I'd say yes. He needs to build this Seahawks franchise back up and win another SB for me to say Yes.

[evilflamingo]

Nah. Currently in the Hall of very good along with similar game managers like Alex Smith unless his play from last year continues to show that he has evolved into something more. 

Sure you can argue wins and efficiency numbers, but his first five years in the league I believe the worst defensive rating Seattle had was #3 scoring defense. He also had a good run game on the back of a certain Marshawn Lynch. On a year-to-year basis during this period, he was probably around top 8-12 among quarterbacks, which doesn't really scream HOF to me. 

Last year was his first with an average defense and although its hard to blame him for the team's short-comings (just as we shouldn't overhype him for two SBs, one in which he threw the game-losing INT in the final moments) I think it's telling that it was the first time they missed the playoffs. To say that his current resume would have him rated over Big Ben is ridiculous to me.

[Ward4HOF]

On 7/27/2018 at 4:11 PM, Yin-Yang said:

I don’t like players who aren’t/have never been top 1/2 (maaaaybe 3) at their position to get into the HOF - regardless of whether or not they accumulate stats or get rings. 

I mean, if he’s consistently 4th in the league and wins 8 Super Bowls, yeah, whatever. But I think HOFers should be the elite of the elite, and as good as Wilson has been despite some poor supporting casts, I don’t think he’s had that career height quite yet.

 

Well, what does he have to do to be considered in the top 1, 2, (MAAAY-BE 3) QBs in the league?  I'd argue that he just needs to wait for Brees, Brady, Ben, and Rodgers to retire, and he'll be right there, in the Public Opinion's eyes...however, in Statistical production, what more does he need to do?  He led the league in 2015 in Passer Rating, he led the NFL in 2017 in TDs, he's currently 2nd All-Time in Career Passer Rating...ahead of Brady, Brees, and Ben. He's won one SB, just like Brees, yet has only played in 1/3 the number of seasons, so time to do more.

Then, as was mentioned, add in his 3000+ yds rushing and 16 Rushing TDs, and you get a lot of offense out of a single player, yet one who's consitently at a Passer Rating of above 92, unlik some other QBs with legs are

So yes, he is HOF bound if he, say, doubles his production plus some...say reaching that 50K ydg and 300 TD mark, whilst keeping his efficiency intact. Because in 3-5 years, when these other old-farts are gone, he rises to the top, IMO.

[Soko]

22 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said:

Well, what does he have to do to be considered in the top 1, 2, (MAAAY-BE 3) QBs in the league?  I'd argue that he just needs to wait for Brees, Brady, Ben, and Rodgers to retire, and he'll be right there, in the Public Opinion's eyes...

Possibly, yes. Although I have no idea how the league’s QBs will look in 3-5 years. Nobody does. Lots of potential floating around between some youngish quarterbacks. 

EDIT: To be clear, if Brady and Brees magically disappeared this season and Russel becomes top 2ish (I have him over Ben for this season), that doesn’t put him in the top tier IMO. It’s all about the competition. Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees were all in the running years back. But if Rodgers is still destroying the competition from a QB play standpoint, the 2nd and 3rd guy don’t arbitrarily be put into the same conversation if there’s a gap (which I believe there is between Rodgers-Wilson). JMO. Lots of people think being top 3 or top 5 makes a player an elite player, I don’t see it that way. Depends on the gap between players.

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however, in Statistical production, what more does he need to do?  He led the league in 2015 in Passer Rating, he led the NFL in 2017 in TDs, he's currently 2nd All-Time in Career Passer Rating...ahead of Brady, Brees, and Ben. He's won one SB, just like Brees, yet has only played in 1/3 the number of seasons, so time to do more.

“Regardless of whether or not they accumulate stats or win rings”. My post pretty clearly hinged on “best of the generation” type player, not stats or rings. So...bringing stats and rings into a post that basically says “regardless of stats or rings” is silly.

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So yes, he is HOF bound if he, say, doubles his production plus some...say reaching that 50K ydg and 300 TD mark, whilst keeping his efficiency intact. Because in 3-5 years, when these other old-farts are gone, he rises to the top, IMO.

And I’d disagree with it unless he shows himself off as the best QB/within the top, top tier of guys. Only way around that is if he’s fringe and either wins a ton/accumulates a ton, which I said above.

Never said he won’t, wouldn’t, can’t, or otherwise be enshrined. Never even said he won’t be within the top 1-3. 

[Ward4HOF]

 

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however, in Statistical production, what more does he need to do?  He led the league in 2015 in Passer Rating, he led the NFL in 2017 in TDs, he's currently 2nd All-Time in Career Passer Rating...ahead of Brady, Brees, and Ben. He's won one SB, just like Brees, yet has only played in 1/3 the number of seasons, so time to do more.

“Regardless of whether or not they accumulate stats or win rings”. My post pretty clearly hinged on “best of the generation” type player, not stats or rings. So...bringing stats and rings into a post that basically says “regardless of stats or rings” is silly.

 

 

No, it's not, since those are the two items that literally define whether a QB is at the top in his 'field'--playoff success and production. What's silly is thinking that Rodgers, Brady, etc., are considered the best at their position for any other reason than production and playoff success. Wilson has accomplished both, with or without adequate supporting staff.  So if you do not use production and playoff success to judge QB play, what the heck do you use?  The 'eye-test'??  Because if a QB's mechanics are spot on, and he has excellent field vision, arm-strength, anticipation, pocket-presence, leadership, and all those other attributes that make a QB good, then production and playoff success is what follows.

QBs don't make it into the HOF based upon any other factors. Hype is generated by winning, and statistical excellence. Russell Wilson has had to overcome his height, and physical make-up, pretty much, to get drafted, and then when he gets drafted, and all he does is win, people still want to enshrine Luck by his 3rd season, when Wilson has out -'everything'd' him. He's consistently underrated, but If he continues on this pace for another 10 years, he ends up with a career Passer rating in the mid-to-upper 90s, over 300 TDs, 50K+ yds, and a SB ring, well, that's what the committee is going to look at, and yes, by default, he is a top 3-ish QB, even if the FF community doesn't want to admit it for their 'favorites'; I guarantee you, the rest of the league, coaches, players, including media, etc., know Wilson's worth, and he's earned that through his statistical performance and SB win/Playoff success.

So tell me, if a QB ranks at the top in Passer Rating in one season, then leads in TDs in another...that's efficiency AND production, I''ll ask again, what else does he need to do to be considered a top QB in the game?  you don;t think so?  OK, that's on you. But don't think just because Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and Ben have held the title for so long, that that means that Wilson can't break through, when he's proven, through the things that matter, that he belongs, but that somehow, other young QBs might come-up and surpass him??  How exactly? Winning? Check, Wilson's done it. Stats?  Efficiency?  Leadership? Check, Check, and Check--Wilson's done it, and still doing it.

[Soko]

30 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said:

 

No, it's not, since those are the two items that literally define whether a QB is at the top in his 'field'--playoff success and production.

Not IMO. Obviously I don’t follow the HOF’s criteria because there are a bunch of guys in that I wouldn’t want in. You’re saying you, the HOF, and other people don’t see it my way? Lol, cool.

Not sure why you’re so triggered. 

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I''ll ask again, what else does he need to do to be considered a top QB in the game?  you don;t think so?  OK, that's on you. 

Wait, you think current Wilson is comparable to current Brady/Rodgers? 

 

[43M]

On 7/30/2018 at 10:33 AM, sammymvpknight said:

I don’t hate Big Ben...I think that he’s been a very good QB, certainly a better one than Eli. But I don’t think that very good QBs should be in the HOF...only elite ones. Big Ben has never been on the level of the big 4 of our generation. Wilson is on a pace that definitely is exceeding Big Ben. Again, that’s not to say that Big Ben is trash...but I have high standards for HOF players. 

Youre right....Big Ben has never been on the level of the big 4.

Neither has Russell Wilson.   He's had stretches...but so has Ben.

I will admit that Wilson's highest level of play was likely higher than Ben's highest level....but lets not act like Wilson has strung together elite seasons like the big 4 youre claiming Ben wasnt on the level on.

If you believe Russell is better than Ben, so be it....but saying he is much more deserving AT THIS POINT is a complete joke.    As good as Wilson can be at times, like Ben, he has his bouts of inconsistency.

[megatechpc]

Wilson is very good but unless the Seahawks give him some help quickly he’s not making the Hall.  He can’t be the entire team for long.

[jsthomp2007]

Yeah...I think he is.  

[THE DUKE]

If he maintains what he is now for another 5 years, then he's in.  Already having that ring is a huge boost.  If he gets another one he's pretty much a lock with 2-3 more great years.

[patriotsheatyan]

IMO he is going on a similar career path to Rivers, but with very different playing styles and careers up to this point.

Both of them started out hot on great teams and were given disproportionate credit for good but not great plays. They were both constantly seen as bordering on elite in the first half of their careers but lacked the signature season to really make it, but had the media constantly calling for it, waiting for the true break out as league MVP, or atleast to have a statistical run like Brees to establish dominance.

But instead their uber talented teams deteriorate to nothing, and they implode with it. The flaws in their game are exposed and they going through some losing seasons with disappointing numbers. They still tend to play well and have noteworthy seasons,  but never really reenter the “can he become elite” discussions. Whether they make the HoF probably ends up coming down to longevity more than anything, as if they play at their typical level long enough they accumulate enough stats and accolades at the most important position to eventually get in, but lack the dominance and peak one might expect.

[Jlowe22]

He's definitely on a HOF pace.  However, if he retired today, he doesn't get in, or at least, I wouldn't put him in.