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DoleINGout

I think this is the year the Patriots fall back!

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A depleted receiving core may be compensated by the tight end and running back depth, but honestly I just see too many question marks in the pasding game. I think the defense has some potential young starters but the leadership of the team hangs in the balance. I think we should expect a regression from TB12, and at least one injury to cause Rob Gronkowski to miss a couple of games.

 

I don't know. It just hit me tonight listening to the receivers the Pats have and understanding the turmoil the team is in at the top. The future looks so much bleaker without a successor to Tom Brady anymore and I feel like the rest of the league is catching up. Convince me otherwise. I am the optimist but now I feel like the realist is setting in. This feels like the last Tom Brady/Bill Belichick/Robert Kraft season. 10-6 and a shot to advance in the playoffs is my expections. If I were being my normal optimistic self then this team would be 12-4 at a minimum and the odds on favorite to not only advance to the Super Bowl but win it.

 

What do you think?

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Posted (edited)

I think you should stop listening to so much Boston Sports talk radio.

Edited by 1ForTheThumb

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Posted (edited)

 

Edited by Elky

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16 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

A depleted receiving core may be compensated by the tight end and running back depth, but honestly I just see too many question marks in the pasding game.

Must’ve missed the years of Kenbrell Thompkins, Aaron Dobson, Keyshawn Martin, Brandon LaFell, etc.

16 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

I think the defense has some potential young starters but the leadership of the team hangs in the balance.

What does this even mean? 

16 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

I think we should expect a regression from TB12, and at least one injury to cause Rob Gronkowski to miss a couple of games.

Anything’s possible but you need to at least be consistent. In one instance, we haven’t seen it happen (Brady regression) but you’re expecting it anyway. In another instance, we have seen it happen (Gronk missing time) so you’re expecting it anyway. 

At least provide reasons.

16 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

I don't know. It just hit me tonight listening to the receivers the Pats have and understanding the turmoil the team is in at the top.

Turn the sports talk shows off.

16 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

The future looks so much bleaker without a successor to Tom Brady anymore and I feel like the rest of the league is catching up. Convince me otherwise.

Says “this is the year the Patriots fall back”.

Used “the future looks bleaker without a successor” as a reason. 

16 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

I am the optimist but now I feel like the realist is setting in. This feels like the last Tom Brady/Bill Belichick/Robert Kraft season. 10-6 and a shot to advance in the playoffs is my expections. If I were being my normal optimistic self then this team would be 12-4 at a minimum and the odds on favorite to not only advance to the Super Bowl but win it.

 

What do you think?

I think you’re buying into what ESPN is selling. No, the Patriots aren’t odds on favorite to win the SB over the field. It’s not even a guarantee NE gets that far, but it never is. If that’s what you mean by “falling back” then you’re expecting too much. 

Most of us expect a strong SB contender that makes noise in the playoffs, one way or another. Nothing you said really detracts from that.

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19 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

A depleted receiving core may be compensated by the tight end and running back depth

This year's receiving corps isn't really much worse than last years'. I think it's better. Sure, we lost Brandin Cooks and Danny Amendola. But we're getting back Edelman, who should easily replace the yardage Cooks accounted for and the role that Amendola played. Need a deep threat to replace Cooks? Dorsett and Hogan can do it. Maybe Patterson can too. Hollister's looking better, so maybe we could have a two tight end set with Gronk. And we still have the best receiver the Patriots have ever had in Gronkowski and a very good receiving back in James White. Plus, Brady's taken a group where Keyshawn Martin started to the AFC Championship Game. 

but honestly I just see too many question marks in the passing game.

Why?? Our offensive line will be fine, and we've still got a good receiving corps. If Mitchell is healthy, we'll have a great one!

I think the defense has some potential young starters but the leadership of the team hangs in the balance.

What does this mean? --- I think the Pats defense should be solid. McCourty, Chung, and Harmon haven't given any signs of falling off anytime soon, and Gilmore is playing lights-out in training camp from what I've heard. There's even been optimism on our 7th round pick Crossen and UDFA J.C. Jackson. Our DB group is solid. If we have to cover a physical guy, Jason McCourty can do it. If it's a speedy guy, Jonathan Jones ran a 4.31. If we need a slot CB, Duke Dawson is the guy. Otherwise, getting Hightower back is huge, and the defensive line looks way better this year.

I think we should expect a regression from TB12, and at least one injury to cause Rob Gronkowski to miss a couple of games.

Okay. When has an injury to Gronkowski ever stopped the Patriots? We won LI without the guy, and he always misses games. Bill finds a way around it. And Brady might regress, sure. But he'd have to regress a LOT to not still be a top-quality quarterback. 

 

I don't know. It just hit me tonight listening to the receivers the Pats have and understanding the turmoil the team is in at the top. The future looks so much bleaker without a successor to Tom Brady anymore and I feel like the rest of the league is catching up. Convince me otherwise. I am the optimist but now I feel like the realist is setting in.

The reality is that the Patriots haven't won less than 10 games since 2002, and haven't won less than 12 since 2009. Even if they fall back from 13-3 to, like, 11-5, they're still going to be good.

This feels like the last Tom Brady/Bill Belichick/Robert Kraft season. 10-6 and a shot to advance in the playoffs is my expections. If I were being my normal optimistic self then this team would be 12-4 at a minimum and the odds on favorite to not only advance to the Super Bowl but win it.

 

What do you think?

 

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Tom is the best But this WR Corps is a joke

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5 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

Tom is the best But this WR Corps is a joke

White, Burkhead, Michel, Gronk are all non-WR's who will be targeted heavily and be effective in the passing game. 

Edelman will come back strong (IMO) and Hogan is definitely serviceable. Perhaps Dorsett, Patterson or Britt can surprise.

 

There are some questions, but it will be unfortunate if none of the players above pan out.  

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1 hour ago, TomRalph said:

White, Burkhead, Michel, Gronk are all non-WR's who will be targeted heavily and be effective in the passing game. 

Edelman will come back strong (IMO) and Hogan is definitely serviceable. Perhaps Dorsett, Patterson or Britt can surprise.

 

There are some questions, but it will be unfortunate if none of the players above pan out.  

Yeah, I'm not sure why people bring up the receiving corps, they ignore the fact that he has outstanding pass catching RB's in Burkhead and White, and one of the best weapons in the game in Gronk.

It's the sum of the collective talent, not the individual pieces.

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20 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

What does this even mean?

It's just an overall assessment. I think the Pats have talent on their roster but the leaders at the top right now are in their last season together. The general thought I have is concerning who the leaders are in flux on the roster and the coaching staff as well as at the top of ownership.

 

20 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Kenbrell Thompkins, Aaron Dobson, Keyshawn Martin, Brandon LaFell, etc.

Dorsett, Patterson and Berrios are all guys with at least one really good athletic trait but none of them offer much in the way of consistency. Sprikle in Hogan and Edelman for part of the season and the offense should be able to survive the regular season. I'm not saying the team will suck but my expectations have dropped from an automatic twelve wins and playoff BYE every season to just competing for a playoff berth within their own division. There is a lot of youth on the team adjusting to the NFL in combination with an old quarterback, depleted receiving corps, injury prone All-Pro tight end, and a head coach and owner who are in the twilight of their careers.

 

20 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Anything’s possible but you need to at least be consistent. In one instance, we haven’t seen it happen (Brady regression) but you’re expecting it anyway. In another instance, we have seen it happen (Gronk missing time) so you’re expecting it anyway. 

At least provide reasons.

It is debatable whether there was a regression in Brady's career prior to Jimmy G being drafted. Regardless, Brady has looked sluggish to start camp and is 41 years old. I think the end is sooner than later for that reason alone so in terms of being consistent with logic, regression will hit as a result of age regardless of there being evidence of any in the past.

 

20 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Says “this is the year the Patriots fall back”.

Used “the future looks bleaker without a successor” as a reason.

The comment you quoted is about the future. There are other reasons indicated however that explore the regression to the mean.

 

20 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

I think you’re buying into what ESPN is selling. No, the Patriots aren’t odds on favorite to win the SB over the field. It’s not even a guarantee NE gets that far, but it never is. If that’s what you mean by “falling back” then you’re expecting too much. 

Most of us expect a strong SB contender that makes noise in the playoffs, one way or another. Nothing you said really detracts from that.

I do not watch ESPN unless there is an event on that channel that I can't get locally on NESN or CNBC or somewhere else.

By making this thread I want to acknowledge that the run as an odds on favorite to at least reach the Super Bowl every year is over. I recognize this team is not going to be the perennial powerhouse for much longer and I challenge the notion that they even even one right now. I expect this season we will see the Patriots fall back to the pack and after it's over there will be some huge changes that alter our current definition of what is a success.

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6 hours ago, TomRalph said:

White, Burkhead, Michel, Gronk are all non-WR's who will be targeted heavily and be effective in the passing game. 

Edelman will come back strong (IMO) and Hogan is definitely serviceable. Perhaps Dorsett, Patterson or Britt can surprise.

 

There are some questions, but it will be unfortunate if none of the players above pan out.  

Dorsett and Patterson  are literally jags who haven’t done anything notable their whole careers. Chris hogan is also a jag who is the number 1 WR the first 4 games of the year 

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Just now, CP3MVP said:

Dorsett and Patterson  are literally jags who haven’t done anything notable their whole careers. Chris hogan is also a jag who is the number 1 WR the first 4 games of the year 

Wes Welker was just a JAG and Randy Moss was a diva.

16-0 here we come. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

It's just an overall assessment. I think the Pats have talent on their roster but the leaders at the top right now are in their last season together. The general thought I have is concerning who the leaders are in flux on the roster and the coaching staff as well as at the top of ownership.

I don’t think Edelman, Hightower, McCourty, Chung, or Harmon are on their last legs this season. Also, their leadership going forward doesn’t effect this season.

Quote

Dorsett, Patterson and Berrios are all guys with at least one really good athletic trait but none of them offer much in the way of consistency. Sprikle in Hogan and Edelman for part of the season and the offense should be able to survive the regular season. I'm not saying the team will suck but my expectations have dropped from an automatic twelve wins and playoff BYE every season to just competing for a playoff berth within their own division. There is a lot of youth on the team adjusting to the NFL in combination with an old quarterback, depleted receiving corps, injury prone All-Pro tight end, and a head coach and owner who are in the twilight of their careers.

Again, isn’t really any worse then it’s been as of late. It was better on paper last season, but before that?

I can’t join a discussion about NE “competing for a playoff berth within their own division”...

Quote

It is debatable whether there was a regression in Brady's career prior to Jimmy G being drafted.

He just won MVP and had even better numbers the year prior...

Quote

Regardless, Brady has looked sluggish to start camp and is 41 years old. I think the end is sooner than later for that reason alone so in terms of being consistent with logic, regression will hit as a result of age regardless of there being evidence of any in the past.

It’s fine to expect regression. Probably even fair to likely, for a reigning MVP.

Quote

By making this thread I want to acknowledge that the run as an odds on favorite to at least reach the Super Bowl every year is over. I recognize this team is not going to be the perennial powerhouse for much longer and I challenge the notion that they even even one right now. I expect this season we will see the Patriots fall back to the pack and after it's over there will be some huge changes that alter our current definition of what is a success.

Good to know. You won’t find many here that agree with you about whether or not NE is a powerhouse. 

Just as long as you aren’t one of those guys whining in GDTs...

Edited by Yin-Yang

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Posted (edited)

You seem to have what is called the 'Post-2007 Patriots Fan Syndrome.' The symptoms basically involve a Schizophrenic nature to all things Patriots related. Causes and triggers are most likely overblown puff piece media reports, lack of familiarity with how this organization has operated through this regime and just being fundamentally spoiled with premium bandwagon football since you can remember (probably 2007 and on).

 

In the end, the Patriots have as good a chance as anybody to win the Super Bowl every year. That's the only reality you should be dwelling on...

Edited by Nex_Gen

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On 8/1/2018 at 11:06 AM, TomRalph said:

Wes Welker was just a JAG and Randy Moss was a diva.

16-0 here we come. 

You mean the team with a 30 year tom Brady instead of a 41 year old one, an offensive line that had 3 all pros on it, Or a defense that outclasses the current one with talent?

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Edelman, Decker, Hogan , Gronk as the core. Same RB’s as last year out of the backfield. Sub Amendola for Britt.

 

not seeing the issue lol

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