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DoleINGout

I think this is the year the Patriots fall back!

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36 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Edelman, Decker, Hogan , Gronk as the core. Same RB’s as last year out of the backfield. Sub Amendola for Britt.

 

not seeing the issue lol

Yeah. I don't think losing Brandin Cooks makes us have a "depleted receiving core," and losing Amendola will be cancelled out by the return of Edelman.

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6 hours ago, lancerman said:

Edelman, Decker, Hogan , Gronk as the core. Same RB’s as last year out of the backfield. Sub Amendola for Britt.

 

not seeing the issue lol

I mean, it’s not as strong. Not really debatable IMO. Decker is likely a nobody at this point and Edelman is not only missing 4 games, but is still recovering from his ACL tear. Cooks stretching the field is a loss. 

Do I think NE is screwed? Absolutely not, but the group is definitely weaker on paper.

BTW, Britt for Amendola isn’t even close to an even split and even putting those two in the same sentence is disrespectful for all Amendola has done. 

5 hours ago, AlNFL19 said:

Yeah. I don't think losing Brandin Cooks makes us have a "depleted receiving core," and losing Amendola will be cancelled out by the return of Edelman.

See above, it’s definitely a blow. Edelman’s missing a fourth of the season at best and needs to recover. Amendola’s presence, especially when the playoffs come around, will be missed. So will Cooks’ big play ability. 

Both things the offense has thrived without in the past, but it’s noticeable. 

OP has a point that the receiving core and offense as a whole, on paper, is worse than last year’s at the moment. But it’s not like we’ve never seen this before with even worse players getting significant snaps, so it’s hard to be doom and gloom unless you’re actively trying to be.

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18 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

I mean, it’s not as strong. Not really debatable IMO. Decker is likely a nobody at this point and Edelman is not only missing 4 games, but is still recovering from his ACL tear. Cooks stretching the field is a loss. 

Do I think NE is screwed? Absolutely not, but the group is definitely weaker on paper.

BTW, Britt for Amendola isn’t even close to an even split and even putting those two in the same sentence is disrespectful for all Amendola has done. 

See above, it’s definitely a blow. Edelman’s missing a fourth of the season at best and needs to recover. Amendola’s presence, especially when the playoffs come around, will be missed. So will Cooks’ big play ability. 

Both things the offense has thrived without in the past, but it’s noticeable. 

OP has a point that the receiving core and offense as a whole, on paper, is worse than last year’s at the moment. But it’s not like we’ve never seen this before with even worse players getting significant snaps, so it’s hard to be doom and gloom unless you’re actively trying to be.

We had Cooks for one year and his stupidity was a massive problem in the Super Bowl. Dola was clutch in the post season but on the whole rather average, his impact is getting over played.  

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38 minutes ago, lancerman said:

We had Cooks for one year and his stupidity was a massive problem in the Super Bowl.

His “stupidity” was a problem because it resulted in him being knocked out of the game. So you’re basically agreeing that he was a good player for the team, noted.

38 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Dola was clutch in the post season but on the whole rather average, his impact is getting over played.  

Comparing what Britt is likely to contribute to what Amendola has contributed on multiple post season runs is the only thing be “over played”.

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4 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

His “stupidity” was a problem because it resulted in him being knocked out of the game. So you’re basically agreeing that he was a good player for the team, noted.

Comparing what Britt is likely to contribute to what Amendola has contributed on multiple post season runs is the only thing be “over played”.

And nonetheless he was only with us for one year out of 4 where we went to 3 Super Bowls. Cooks was a luxury. He was NEVER a need. We won the Super Bowl a year before without Gronk and Cooks on the team. 

And I'm sorry I remember all the years Amendola was a disappointment who couldn't stay healthy. He made some clutch playoff plays, lets not act like he was some all star. Britt has shown that if healthy he has a higher ceiling than Amendola. If him and Brady jive he's a minimum 700-800 yard receiver with potential for 1000 yards if he has a really good year. Britt's production level is a small step up from Amendola.

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1 minute ago, lancerman said:

And nonetheless he was only with us for one year out of 4 where we went to 3 Super Bowls. Cooks was a luxury. He was NEVER a need. We won the Super Bowl a year before without Gronk and Cooks on the team. 

No doubt, he’s a luxury. Doesn’t change the fact that his loss is one that does count when comparing this year’s team to last year’s.

1 minute ago, lancerman said:

And I'm sorry I remember all the years Amendola was a disappointment who couldn't stay healthy. He made some clutch playoff plays, lets not act like he was some all star. Britt has shown that if healthy he has a higher ceiling than Amendola. If him and Brady jive he's a minimum 700-800 yard receiver with potential for 1000 yards if he has a really good year. Britt's production level is a small step up from Amendola.

What? Kenny Britt is hot garbage. He doesn’t get open, he doesn’t have consistent hands, and the only coach ever known to get anything out of him is Jeff Fisher. The guy might not even make the roster.

You can remember Amendola however you want. He was a monster this year in the postseason and a clutch player for most of his playoff tenure in NE. He was a disappointment because people - including myself - were expecting Wes Welker. He’s been important in the postseason though, and it’s nothing short of laughable to even pretend that Kenny Britt will be anything close to what Amendola has been in the playoffs. 

He’s Brandon LaFell 2.0 in an ideal world. But for the Patriots he’s more likely Aaron Dobson and I give him a 50/50 shot to even make the 53 (maybe a bit more because of Edelman’s suspension).

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11 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

No doubt, he’s a luxury. Doesn’t change the fact that his loss is one that does count when comparing this year’s team to last year’s.

What? Kenny Britt is hot garbage. He doesn’t get open, he doesn’t have consistent hands, and the only coach ever known to get anything out of him is Jeff Fisher. The guy might not even make the roster.

You can remember Amendola however you want. He was a monster this year in the postseason and a clutch player for most of his playoff tenure in NE. He was a disappointment because people - including myself - were expecting Wes Welker. He’s been important in the postseason though, and it’s nothing short of laughable to even pretend that Kenny Britt will be anything close to what Amendola has been in the playoffs. 

He’s Brandon LaFell 2.0 in an ideal world. But for the Patriots he’s more likely Aaron Dobson and I give him a 50/50 shot to even make the 53 (maybe a bit more because of Edelman’s suspension).

Again he was here for one year in a 4 year stretch where we went to 3 Super Bowls that was part of a 7 year stretch where we went to 4 and every AFCCG. He was not going to make or break this team. He was always viewed as a luxury on top of what was already a strong enough WR Corp. We won 2 Super Bowls without him. He’s not the thing that’s going to break this team. 

No I can look at facts, Amendola was always dinged up and he has been less productive over his career than Britt has been. He has made up for it with some clutch plays in big moments. Take those away and he’s a middle of the road wide WR and there’s no reason to act like Britt is a downgrade beyond that you really like Dola. Not only is it not laughable it’s LIKELY Britt is more productive for us than Amendola. We’ll have to wait to the playoffs to see if he can make some clutch plays. But as far as whose an overall better receiver, history says you are wrong. 

And we have Edelman back. 

It was just a year ago where we won a Super Bowl off a 14-2 season with no Gronk (whose better than everyone we talked about so far) and no Cooks.

And two years before that we didn’t even have Hogan on the team and Lafe was our legit deep threat. And we still won. 

Healthy Gronk and Edelman is about as ideal as we can hope for. And id trade Edelman for Cooks in a heartbeat and there is no tangible way to say anything but that Britt is more consistent than Dola. 

Edelman, Gronk, Hogan, Britt is a fine WR set and about as good as anyone we’ve had since we lost Welker and Hernandez. If Decker can contribute then it’s actually one of the strongest we’ve had 

 

 

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3 hours ago, lancerman said:

Again he was here for one year in a 4 year stretch where we went to 3 Super Bowls that was part of a 7 year stretch where we went to 4 and every AFCCG. He was not going to make or break this team. He was always viewed as a luxury on top of what was already a strong enough WR Corp. We won 2 Super Bowls without him. He’s not the thing that’s going to break this team. 

You’re arguing a straw man. I never said he was going to break the team. I said him not being here this year is a loss. Cooks is a good player, it’s not really a debatable point. It doesn’t matter if he was here for 10 years or here for 1, a loss is a loss.

3 hours ago, lancerman said:

No I can look at facts, Amendola was always dinged up and he has been less productive over his career than Britt has been. He has made up for it with some clutch plays in big moments. Take those away and he’s a middle of the road wide WR and there’s no reason to act like Britt is a downgrade beyond that you really like Dola. Not only is it not laughable it’s LIKELY Britt is more productive for us than Amendola. We’ll have to wait to the playoffs to see if he can make some clutch plays. But as far as whose an overall better receiver, history says you are wrong. 

If you think a career-stone handed WR that doesn’t run good routes and wasn’t wanted in two wide receiver groups that were among the worst in the NFL is going to be what Amendola was in the playoffs, then power to you. 

The guy might not even make the team, now you’re saying he’s better than one of the best postseason Patriot WRs ever.

3 hours ago, lancerman said:

And we have Edelman back. 

Yep, went over that one already. 

3 hours ago, lancerman said:

It was just a year ago where we won a Super Bowl off a 14-2 season with no Gronk (whose better than everyone we talked about so far) and no Cooks.

Cool. 

3 hours ago, lancerman said:

And two years before that we didn’t even have Hogan on the team and Lafe was our legit deep threat. And we still won. 

LaFell wasn’t really a deep threat, but noted.

3 hours ago, lancerman said:

Healthy Gronk and Edelman is about as ideal as we can hope for. And id trade Edelman for Cooks in a heartbeat and there is no tangible way to say anything but that Britt is more consistent than Dola. 

May want to google what “tangible” means. Because I think it’s pretty easy to say that the WR with better hands, who runs better routes, who has shown an ability to pickup a complex offensive system, who is clutch in the playoffs, and has a much higher catch percentage, is much more consistent.

Is Britt healthier? Absolutely.

3 hours ago, lancerman said:

Edelman, Gronk, Hogan, Britt is a fine WR set and about as good as anyone we’ve had since we lost Welker and Hernandez. If Decker can contribute then it’s actually one of the strongest we’ve had 

I guess we already forgot two years ago? That’s healthy Edelman, Gronk, Bennett, Hogan, Amendola, and a little bit of Mitchell.

So let me reiterate my point because it really seems like there’s a disconnect. I’m not saying the team is done or that they need an all-star group of skills position guys to win a SB. The point is that this isn’t a good group of receiver right now since virtually everyone either is a question mark or has yellow flag (Edelman’s suspension/injury, Gronk’s always an injury risk, love Hogan but after the injury last year he looked different, etc). It’s not a particularly strong group and weaker than last year’s group on paper. Doesn’t mean the team is doomed.

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Personally think the first 4 weeks could be a struggle again. When you have Burkhead, Michel, Cannon and Edelman back at 100% we should be ok.

 

The defense to me is improved.

 

Think it's a 12-4 season with a shot to win the SB. Don't see the dropoff. 

 

That said the roster isn't good and without Brady the team will fall off the a cliff. Think this is the last year of Brady and 2019 will be really bad. 

 

 

But every run ends at some point. So nothing to worry about. This year will be great though.

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30 minutes ago, SBLIII said:

That said the roster isn't good and without Brady the team will fall off the a cliff. Think this is the last year of Brady and 2019 will be really bad. 

To me it's the last season for Belichick or Brady. If Brady stays and signs an extention with Gronk then I can see 2019 being okay with or without Belichick. If Brady retires and Belichick remains, I think it would be okay for a year but I think he would retire shortly after 2019.

30 minutes ago, SBLIII said:

This year will be great though.

Starting to align more this way if for no other reason than the AFC lacks true Super Bowl contenders, (Patriots/Raiders/Jaguars, that's it).The defense looks better and Brady seems fully engaged now.

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1 hour ago, DoleINGout said:

Starting to align more this way if for no other reason than the AFC lacks true Super Bowl contenders, (Patriots/Raiders/Jaguars, that's it).The defense looks better and Brady seems fully engaged now.

No love for Pittsburgh? Or to less of a degree KC, Indy, or LAC?

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4 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

No love for Pittsburgh? Or to less of a degree KC, Indy, or LAC?

Zero love for Pittsburgh. The Steelers are relying on an overrated, old, injury-prone diva QB and disgruntled star RB who has been holding out for the last two years and is also injury prone. Antonio Brown can only carry the offense so long. JuJu Smith-Schuster has helped the offenseand the offensive line is solidified but on defense there is no Ryan Shazier. Joe Haden is another year slower and TJ Watt isn't the same pass rusher that can carry the entire team JJ is, (or other elite pass rushers). The Steelers also compete in one of the strongest divisions top to bottom so I don't think they'll even make it into the playoffs unless as a wildcard.

Kansas City and Indianapolis are both potential playoff teams but neither is a serious Super Bowl contender. Indy falls short on defense and Kansas City is too inexperienced at quarterback in my mind to really run deep into the playoffs.

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Oh and the Chargers are a joke @Deadpulse. It doesn't help that they've already lost Jason Verrett and Hunter Henry. Philip Rivers is washed up. Keenan Allen is injury prone. Gates is gone - the longtime Rivers safety blanket. Danny Woodhead is gone - the other safety blanket of Rivers'.The Chargers have a pass rush duo of Joey Bosa/Melvin Ingram with average coverage in the back seven and two backs on offense with a below average offensive line. I'd be surprised if the Chargers don't finish last in the AFC West behind the Raiders/Chiefs/Broncos. To me, the Broncos will give the Chargers a run for their money to finish last in the division if both Case Keenum and Chad Kelly implode.

Edited by DoleINGout
below average offensive line and overrated defense

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48 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Oh and the Chargers are a joke @Deadpulse. It doesn't help that they've already lost Jason Verrett and Hunter Henry.

Henry’s a blow, but Verrett is never healthy anyway. He’s been outplayed by 3 corners on the roster. 

48 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Philip Rivers is washed up.

Coming off a 4,500-28-10 season...

48 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Keenan Allen is injury prone.

So is Gronk, doesn’t make either of them less of a threat in August.

48 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Gates is gone - the longtime Rivers safety blanket. Danny Woodhead is gone - the other safety blanket of Rivers'.

Neither of those players have been focal or integral part of the Chargers’ offense in a while now.

48 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

The Chargers have a pass rush duo of Joey Bosa/Melvin Ingram with average coverage in the back seven and two backs on offense with a below average offensive line.

The Chargers have one of the best secondaries in the league...

48 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

 I'd be surprised if the Chargers don't finish last in the AFC West behind the Raiders/Chiefs/Broncos. To me, the Broncos will give the Chargers a run for their money to finish last in the division if both Case Keenum and Chad Kelly implode.

You’re nuts man, Rivers is still the best and most consistent QB in that division. 

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35 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Henry’s a blow, but Verrett is never healthy anyway. He’s been outplayed by 3 corners on the roster. 

If Verrett is never healthy, (which is undebatable), how can he be outplayed? Yes, Verrett is hurt AGAIN, and it is a blow to the defense still. Their secondary is without Tre Boston, replaced by athetlic rookie Derwin James. I am not a James fan and the rest of the Chargers secondary is average sans on guy - Casey Hayward. Beyond the secondary, the linebackers are average too. Corey Luiget is suspended for a chunk of the season. Brandon Mebane tore his bicep two years ago and isn't the same guy at 33 that he was when he played for the Seahawks. The Chargers have a lot of hype and I don't buy it at all. Rivers may be better than Case Keenum, Patrick Mahomes, and Chad Kelly, but Derek Carr is in the same tier and in my opinion ascending where as Rivers is declining so I'd consider it a wash.

 

47 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

So is Gronk, doesn’t make either of them less of a threat in August.

Gronkowski has played in 37 regular season games and five playoff games in the last three years. Keenan Allen played in 24 games total the last three seasons with fifteen of those games coming last year. Allen has been more injury prone as of late than Gronk.

 

51 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Neither of those players have been focal or integral part of the Chargers’ offense in a while now.

Point is Rivers is without any go-to besides Allen when healthy and occassionally Eckler. Gates was featured quite a bit in 2016 and played for the team last year. Woodhead was a safety blanket for Rivers in 2015 and 2016 before getting injured. Last season Woodhead served the same role for the Ravens before getting injured again.

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