Can You Digg It Sucka (Diggs Signs Extension to Stay a Viking)

[footbull3196]

Happy that Diggs got resigned, but theres almost no way we're going to be able to resign Anthony Barr now.  Sure hope management figures this one out quick 

[incognito_man]

Locked up their #2 WR long-term. Good for them!

[Dr LBC]

6 hours ago, Forge said:

He's locked up

He's locked up in theory, but his guarantees run out after this year.  If he even holds the same trajectory from last season into this season, you had best believe his agent will have him holding out for an extension and more money in 2019, especially since Diggs just got this fat contract.  He's 27 right now, he'll be 31 when his current deal expires after 2020 - a guy putting up back-to-back 1000 yard (967 in 2016 was close enough) seasons in his mid-20's is not going to be content pulling down a sub-$5M AAV in the current market.

[wcblack34]

49 minutes ago, Oregon Ducks said:

Not bad. he's their only WR worth a damn.

So you only watch college football then?

[JaguarCrazy2832]

50 minutes ago, footbull3196 said:

Happy that Diggs got resigned, but theres almost no way we're going to be able to resign Anthony Barr now.  Sure hope management figures this one out quick 

Thats what i was wondering too. Seems like they have spent alot of money lately and eventually that catches up somehow

[footbull3196]

21 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

Thats what i was wondering too. Seems like they have spent alot of money lately and eventually that catches up somehow

Exactly, im not sure if we can afford to keep everyone, especially considering Thielen is most likely gonna ask for a pay raise after this season since he's making less than $10M a season and is the more productive receiver

[SteelKing728]

I Diggs it!

If he can stay healthy, he'll show everyone just how good he can be. 

Great move by Minnesota!

[SteelKing728]

3 hours ago, SSG said:

That means very little IMO.  Moss wasn't a possession WR.  Moss didn't' wasn't even through his second season and he'd already surpassed what Diggs has done in 3 years.  His 16 game rookie season produced more TDs than Digg's has had in his 40 games as a pro.  

My issue is when you compare him to his peers his production doesn't compare favorable when looking at that MASSIVE contract.  He's been among the top 15 WRs in yards or catches just once.  The list of WRs who have been more productive in their last 3 years is really, really long.  Heck, Marvin Jones, who makes only 8 million a year has been SUBSTANTIALLY more productive.

That has to do with the injuries Diggs has sustained over his career, and constant QB turnover year to year.

Diggs is a very good WR.

[footbull3196]

1 hour ago, Oregon Ducks said:

Not bad. he's their only WR worth a damn.

Lmao he's not even the best receiver on the team.  I get that Thielen is more of a slot receiver, but Diggs still has a lot to prove now that he got the contract he wanted

[Krauser]

41 minutes ago, The LBC said:

He's 27 right now, he'll be 31 when his current deal expires after 2020 - a guy putting up back-to-back 1000 yard (967 in 2016 was close enough) seasons in his mid-20's is not going to be content pulling down a sub-$5M AAV in the current market.

Thielen had a guaranteed one-year RFA deal last year for $2.9M. He asked for the extension he signed, which just starts this year, and runs through 2020. 

He owes his career to the Vikings: he was a walk-on tryout, not even a regular UDFA signing. He's not going to hold out. 

The Vikings last year extended Griffen and Joseph with 2 years remaining on their 2014 contracts, guaranteeing them the remaining money and adding a signing bonus paid up front, while tacking on 4 more years at market rate. Thielen will likely get the same kind of offer. They won't tear up his deal as written, they never do -- all extensions have been added to the end of existing deals, as Diggs' was today. 

Taking that approach, Thielen could get offered something like $58M/4 in new money starting in 2021, with that offer being made in the summer of 2019. They would offer to guarantee the remaining money for the last 2 years of his current deal -- something like $9M guaranteed over 2019 and 2020. For new money, there'd be a signing bonus payable immediately, say $10M (reason enough not to hold out), and then salaries of $48M covering the 4 years from 2021-24. Thielen's current cap numbers would go up by $2M (adding the prorated signing bonus from the extension) for 2019 and 2020. He'd have $6M in dead cap money (what's left of the prorated signing bonus) remaining in 2021, the year he turns 31, so the $48M in salaries would be easy to restructure if and when his production falls off with age. 

[Kiwibrown]

1 hour ago, Oregon Ducks said:

Not bad. he's their only WR worth a damn.

What's the difference between him and theilin?

[Dr LBC]

5 minutes ago, Krauser said:

Thielen had a guaranteed one-year RFA deal last year for $2.9M. He asked for the extension he signed, which just starts this year, and runs through 2020. 

He owes his career to the Vikings: he was a walk-on tryout, not even a regular UDFA signing. He's not going to hold out. 

The Vikings last year extended Griffen and Joseph with 2 years remaining on their 2014 contracts, guaranteeing them the remaining money and adding a signing bonus paid up front, while tacking on 4 more years at market rate. Thielen will likely get the same kind of offer. They won't tear up his deal as written, they never do -- all extensions have been added to the end of existing deals, as Diggs' was today. 

Taking that approach, Thielen could get offered something like $58M/4 in new money starting in 2021, with that offer being made in the summer of 2019. They would offer to guarantee the remaining money for the last 2 years of his current deal -- something like $9M guaranteed over 2019 and 2020. For new money, there'd be a signing bonus payable immediately, say $10M (reason enough not to hold out), and then salaries of $48M covering the 4 years from 2021-24. Thielen's current cap numbers would go up by $2M (adding the prorated signing bonus from the extension) for 2019 and 2020. He'd have $6M in dead cap money (what's left of the prorated signing bonus) remaining in 2021, the year he turns 31, so the $48M in salaries would be easy to restructure if and when his production falls off with age. 

A 31-year-old receiver (not named Larry Fitzgerald) isn't getting offered $15m per.  He has repaid whatever debt he had to the Vikings.  But sorry, what you proposed sounds more like "fan suggesting something that's more team-centric than what agents really ever agree to in the league".

[Krauser]

1 hour ago, The LBC said:

A 31-year-old receiver (not named Larry Fitzgerald) isn't getting offered $15m per.  He has repaid whatever debt he had to the Vikings.  But sorry, what you proposed sounds more like "fan suggesting something that's more team-centric than what agents really ever agree to in the league".

He'd be 28 turning 29 when the offer is made next year. 

Here's Everson Griffen's page on OTC: https://overthecap.com/player/everson-griffen/1774/

Griffen was 29 turning 30 last year when he signed that extension, which kicks in the year he turns 32. 

The structure I followed for Thielen is very close to Griffen's actual extension. Griffen's 2017 and 2018 guaranteed salaries were what was left over from his 2014-18 extension. The signing bonus was much smaller than I was suggesting for Thielen. The $58M/4 of new money was the same, and similarly market price for his position on an own-team extension signed well before coming to market as a UFA. 

Linval Joseph's extension also has this structure and applies for a similar age range.

So this isn't something I can take credit for inventing myself. 

[Soko]

1 hour ago, Krauser said:

He owes his career to the Vikings: he was a walk-on tryout, not even a regular UDFA signing. He's not going to hold out. 

Yeah, I’m not really sure 99.99% of players feel that way.

[Krauser]

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

Yeah, I’m not really sure 99.99% of players feel that way.

He's a local kid, grew up in small town Minnesota and cheered for the Vikings his whole life. Had a good but not great college career at a local Div II school. Got no interest in the 2013 draft and no initial offers as a UDFA. Vikings brought him as a tryout to rookie camp, one of a handful of local college kids who get that offer every year. He was signed to the 90 man preseason roster but released after preseason. Made it to the practice squad and spent a year there attracting no outside interest.

Thielen made the Vikings roster in his second year, in 2014. Was used mostly on special teams his first 2 years, where he was very good. Got a few snaps here and there as a rotational WR and a few more when receivers above him on the depth chart (including the likes of Jerome Simpson and Charles Johnson) missed games. Saw 13 targets in 2014, 18 in 2015 -- had 280 yards receiving through his first 2 years, only one TD (on a play where the Bears got caught changing personnel on a quick snap and didn't cover him on a deep route). 

Thielen finally came into his own as a WR in 2016, emerged as a vertical target for Bradford. Had a very respectable 967 yards and 5 TDs on a Vikings offense hamstrung by terrible OL play.

The Vikings tendered him for $2.7M as a second rounder on an RFA contract for 2017. Any team in the league could've offered him more than the  extension the Vikings later gave him, and the Vikings either would've had to match or let him go in return for a 2nd round pick. There were no outside offers.

Thielen could've played out his one year RFA deal for 2017 and hit the UFA market this spring, and after putting 1276 yards on 91 receptions, he would've been in line for a Landry/Watkins style deal. Instead, Thielen had his agent ask the Vikings last March for a long-term extension: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/03/08/wr-adam-thielen-seeks-respect-with-new-vikings-deal-as-rfa/98930898/

And the Vikings obliged. 

So however 99.99% of NFL players feel, I think the local kid playing for his childhood team who gave him a tryout when no one else would and kept him on the roster when no one else would and gave him a long term contract when no one else would, is not likely going to be holding out demanding more money because he outplayed the extension he hasn't even started yet, which he asked for in the first place.