Khalil Mack traded to the Bears (Page 19)

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Well Calhoun is back on the PS, so it's moot at this point.

I'm sure they want to field the most competitive team. The Rams are a sound offense, he wanted experience. That defense played well. Stop making it sound like they lost by 20 as if it was all on the defense. That unit played well considering.

If they're trying to field the most competitive team this year then why trade Khalil Mack away for assets that have zero impact for us this season? To me, it seems like Gruden and Reggie have no plan. Do you want to compete or rebuild cause as of now it looks like we're not doing either. 

 

[NYRaider]

6 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Can you just give it 6-8 games and see how things come together. You're jumping to a bunch of conclusions over a week 1 game in an entirely new system.

 

I'm not basing it off of one game, I'm basing it off of Gruden's past performance. Looking at his results in Tampa there isn't anything that inspires confidence that his personnel strategy actually works in building a contender. As the rest of the league is trending younger, Gruden is building the oldest team in the league, yet is trying to rebuild. 

[big_palooka]

55 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

If they're trying to field the most competitive team this year then why trade Khalil Mack away for assets that have zero impact for us this season? To me, it seems like Gruden and Reggie have no plan. Do you want to compete or rebuild cause as of now it looks like we're not doing either. 

 

You can have it both ways. It's pro sports, everyone wants to compete. But Gruden knows the team has holes and it will take some time. So you look to the future, teach the system and there will be some stop gap players along the way to do that. I like how you ignore the fact Key, Hall, Hurst, Miller all are getting massive play time in speaking of getting youth on the field.

Again..... IT"S WEEK 1. If they are down in out of contention later in the season, I'm sure younger guys will get a shot.

[big_palooka]

56 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I'm not basing it off of one game, I'm basing it off of Gruden's past performance. Looking at his results in Tampa there isn't anything that inspires confidence that his personnel strategy actually works in building a contender. As the rest of the league is trending younger, Gruden is building the oldest team in the league, yet is trying to rebuild. 

lol... the rest of the league trending younger. What does that even mean? There are veteran players everywhere, every roster. 

Gruden never had a QB in Tampa. Make of that what you will.

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

lol... the rest of the league trending younger. What does that even mean? There are veteran players everywhere, every roster. 

Gruden never had a QB in Tampa. Make of that what you will.

https://apnews.com/c4ced94a2372442681f069f647af61c4

Quote

Since Jon Gruden last coached in the NFL a decade ago, the league has undergone a youth movement.

Thanks to a collective bargaining agreement that limits salaries for players in their first four years and a more spread out game that places a greater premium on speed, teams have relied more than ever on young players.

Gruden still is showing the same kind of preference for experience that he did when he first took over the Raiders back in 1998, signing 11 players this offseason who are already in their 30s.

“We’ve added a veteran presence,” Gruden said. “Some people don’t like it, but I like Derrick Johnson, I like Marcus Gilchrist, I like guys that know what the heck is going on.”

That’s the opposite direction most teams have gone since Gruden last coached in Tampa Bay in 2008. The youth movement hit high gear following the 2011 collective bargaining agreement and the average snap weighted age for NFL players fell to 26.46 years last season, according to Football Outsiders, the lowest since the website began tracking that number in 2006.

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[big_palooka]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

https://apnews.com/c4ced94a2372442681f069f647af61c4

 

Right... because teams don't want to pay vets. That what the CBA created. Rookie wage scales made it cheaper.

Lynch, Cook, LaFell, Nelson, Johnson, Martin, Carradine, Hall, Rucker, Nugent, Rubin (IR), DRC, Harris - They are all on 1 year deals. 12 guys 30+ years old on the roster will be off it next year. Carradine, Martin, Melvin, Lamur - all 1 year deals as well.

So I fail to see your point. Bad roster, needed stop gaps and vet leadership all are here temporarily.

This "Raiders have the oldest roster in the league" narrative is just for the Gruden bashers. Best to let them have it and focus on the core of this team Carr, Cooper, Miller, Key, Hurst, Hall, Conley, Jackson.... that's a talented group to build on. 

 

[NYRaider]

7 hours ago, big_palooka said:

This "Raiders have the oldest roster in the league" narrative is just for the Gruden bashers. Best to let them have it and focus on the core of this team Carr, Cooper, Miller, Key, Hurst, Hall, Conley, Jackson.... that's a talented group to build on. 

 

 

Is it really though? When you have guys like Hall, Nelson, Rucker, etc playing the majority of the game when we're getting blown out and they're getting punked on?

[MrOaktown_56]

8 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Right... because teams don't want to pay vets. That what the CBA created. Rookie wage scales made it cheaper.

Lynch, Cook, LaFell, Nelson, Johnson, Martin, Carradine, Hall, Rucker, Nugent, Rubin (IR), DRC, Harris - They are all on 1 year deals. 12 guys 30+ years old on the roster will be off it next year. Carradine, Martin, Melvin, Lamur - all 1 year deals as well.

So I fail to see your point. Bad roster, needed stop gaps and vet leadership all are here temporarily.

This "Raiders have the oldest roster in the league" narrative is just for the Gruden bashers. Best to let them have it and focus on the core of this team Carr, Cooper, Miller, Key, Hurst, Hall, Conley, Jackson.... that's a talented group to build on. 

 

I love that in the offseason you pump the brakes, then in the regular season when everyone is crying after a week, you steady everything and try to act rational, unlike half the sub, who are calling for Carr's head.

[Roninho]

19 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Gruden's model of relying on veterans past their prime and keeping the training wheels on young players doesn't work though. He won a Super Bowl with Tony Dungey's roster and then was meh the rest of his time in Tampa Bay. In the six years following his Super Bowl victory where he brought in a ton of vets and built the team in his image he averaged 7.5 wins per year and won zero playoff games. 

That is true. However very few teams have succes with comparable qb's to the very very average qb's he had during that time.

I love it when young guys come in and start. But only when they are at least as good as the older guy. If Joseph cant beat out old man Nelson then i dont blame Gruden for playing old guys but i'd question if the kid ever will become usefull.

 

 

[OakRaiders3828]

10 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I love that in the offseason you pump the brakes, then in the regular season when everyone is crying after a week, you steady everything and try to act rational, unlike half the sub, who are calling for Carr's head.

Carr is the same guy he’s always been. Works best out of a clean pocket. He’s overthinking right now, hence that second interception when he tried to pull back last second. He will be ok, he’s going from a simple system to an extremely complex one. You could tell even pre snap that they still need some time to get it down. 

[OakRaiders3828]

People seem to forget that 2016 was the second season in Musgraves system, for the first time in Carr’s career. There’s definitely a correlation between that fact and the success the Offense and Carr had. After the first season the reactionary majority wanted Musgrave fired, the same people who want him back. If I screenshot most of Carr’s TDs in 2016 you’ll see a clean interior pocket, which is important for a QB like Carr, and it’s the same thing that made him uncomfortable on Monday. Strengths and weaknesses, every QB has them. Gruden and Carr will figure it out, but it’s Week 1 for crying out loud. 

[OakRaiders3828]

I agree there are some things I’d like to see him do better, especially for that money (off schedule plays, taking more shots) but I’m absolutely more than willing to give Gruden more than one regular season game to work on it, especially after all of the coaching changes he’s been through (that’s a lot of voices/advice for one guy) Remember the people who wanted to bench him more McGloin in 2015? 

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

 

[Humble_Beast]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000964490/article/carr-it-hurts-your-heart-to-see-khalil-mack-off-raiders

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]