2018 Hall of Fame game - Bears vs Ravens

[Sugashane]

19 minutes ago, RJ_11 said:

And John Timu and Jonathan Anderson, those two are still gonna be our back up LBs in 2035.

Think of how experienced they will be in the film room though. And even in 2035 they will still have fresh legs, having roughly only 1000 snaps each.

 

...Fresh, varicose vein riddled legs...

 

Makes me want to watch Kingpin.

[topwop1]

Why does everyone hate Bellamy so much? He is probably going to make the team behind ARob, Gabriel, Miller, White and maybe Wims.

As for the game I liked what I saw out of the D-line and edge play with RRH, Nichols, Irving and Fitts.  The secondary play was just ok, but Bush made a nice play and the penalty on Orr in the endzone was BS.  That was a great hit.

Like others have mentioned, I wasn't really impressed with the QB play.  Daniel made a few bad reads last night and his balls didn't look to have much zip on them.  I'm not convinced he's a better option than Mark Sanchez was.  Let's all pray that Mitch stays healthy for the full season.

[Madmike90]

2 hours ago, RJ_11 said:

And John Timu and Jonathan Anderson, those two are still gonna be our back up LBs in 2035.

Timu can not be on this roster come the start of the team...the dude couldn't cover a mannequin...Anderson isn't much better...the LB position and expecially speed at the LB position is what makes this defence go.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, topwop1 said:

Why does everyone hate Bellamy so much? He is probably going to make the team behind ARob, Gabriel, Miller, White and maybe Wims.

 

 

He is a low upside player who is almost 30 and offers nothing but average special teams value and is a ******. People talk aout how good he is on special teams, I can only guess they are confusing him with McManus because HE is a special teams standout. Bellamy only started 7 games and was only about 20th on special teams snaps.

 

When the Bears got Robinson he tweeted

 

 

They sleep on you Bellamy because you suck. It took him his 4th year to land a single catch, finally got his chance and had about a 10% drop rate (which is trash) and still has a mouth?
 

Sign me up for either paying for a real ST stud in FA or giving higher upside guys a shot to develop and carve a role out in ST. People say Gentry sucks, and he is not starter material by any means, but I'll take a 23 year old Tanner Gentry that at least shows flashes over a 29 year old Bellamy that peaked and is waiting for the tires to fall off. Either have potential to be kept around for depth or stand out on special teams. Bellamy does neither IMO. 

[IronMike84]

1 hour ago, topwop1 said:

Why does everyone hate Bellamy so much? He is probably going to make the team behind ARob, Gabriel, Miller, White and maybe Wims.

Nobody rags on McManis, yet the only reason he’s still around is ST.

AR, Gabriel, Miller, and White aren’t playing on coverage units, which makes Bellamy the WR5 by default, which all of the fans will inevitably hate and say they don’t understand because they want all of the best skill position guys and aren’t at all concerned with conceding field position or letting guys house kickoffs.

[Sugashane]

9 minutes ago, IronMike84 said:

Nobody rags on McManis, yet the only reason he’s still around is ST.

AR, Gabriel, Miller, and White aren’t playing on coverage units, which makes Bellamy the WR5 by default, which all of the fans will inevitably hate and say they don’t understand because they want all of the best skill position guys and aren’t at all concerned with conceding field position or letting guys house kickoffs.

People don't rag on McManis being a sole STer because he is actually good at it. Bellamy is an average STer pretending to be a WR.

 

Coverage has sucked while Bellamy was out there. Houston-Carson, Cunningham, and McManis are all better than Bellamy in ST. 

 

Also he didn't exactly stop the kickoff from being taken to the house...

 

 

He didn't make the tackle, make contact with Rainey, hell he whiffed on the blocker. He was already on the ground from whiffing when Rainey went by him. His whole purpose was to hit a lead blocker, and missed them entirely! But hey, he stomped and had a tantrum while not pursuing, so that is a plus. He may suck, but has emotion.

[IronMike84]

8 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

People don't rag on McManis being a sole STer because he is actually good at it. Bellamy is an average STer pretending to be a WR.

 

Coverage has sucked while Bellamy was out there. Houston-Carson, Cunningham, and McManis are all better than Bellamy in ST. 

 

Also he didn't exactly stop the kickoff from being taken to the house...

 

 

He didn't make the tackle, make contact with Rainey, hell he whiffed on the blocker. He was already on the ground from whiffing when Rainey went by him. His whole purpose was to hit a lead blocker, and missed them entirely! But hey, he stomped and had a tantrum while not pursuing, so that is a plus. He may suck, but has emotion.

If the coaching staff sees ST value, he’s going to stick.

On a similar note, everybody is super high on Wims right now. He’s also going to have to play on the coverage units to stick, else he’s headed for the PS. I don’t see the Bears keeping six WRs and one or zero of them contribute on special teams.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, IronMike84 said:

If the coaching staff sees ST value, he’s going to stick.

On a similar note, everybody is super high on Wims right now. He’s also going to have to play on the coverage units to stick, else he’s headed for the PS. I don’t see the Bears keeping six WRs and one or zero of them contribute on special teams.

He will stick, but I was refuting the idea that he was actually a really good ST player and that he actually is even an impact player there. He is JAG on offense and not much more on ST. The fact is he is a known average participant there which still puts him above a lot of guys, but he isn't going to make or break a ST group. We should be looking to improve ST if he is going to be a key player there then the bar is set too low.

 

Agree on Wims. Had a good game but he is a late round pick who played a lot of scrubs. I think he is PS bound at the moment. That is where he and Gentry should be. Unless they ball out on ST this preseason there shouldn't be a role on offense for either without significant injuries.

[topwop1]

14 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

He will stick, but I was refuting the idea that he was actually a really good ST player and that he actually is even an impact player there. He is JAG on offense and not much more on ST. The fact is he is a known average participant there which still puts him above a lot of guys, but he isn't going to make or break a ST group. We should be looking to improve ST if he is going to be a key player there then the bar is set too low.

 

Agree on Wims. Had a good game but he is a late round pick who played a lot of scrubs. I think he is PS bound at the moment. That is where he and Gentry should be. Unless they ball out on ST this preseason there shouldn't be a role on offense for either without significant injuries.

To be fair I never said that Bellamy was a really good special teamer but he is probably one of the few guys from that group who has shown a decent ability to play on special teams. 

I'm all for developing younger talent but the bottom of the depth chart skill position guys need to be able to demonstrate that they are willing to play in the dirty area , which the jury is still out on with guys like Gentry and Wims.

And for as much as Bellamy has shown in the past that he will make easy drops on routine catches, he has also shown a knack for getting open and at least being able to stretch the field.  I don't think he's as bad as people make him out to be on here.  There's a reason he's stuck around this long after all.

[dll2000]

15 hours ago, Epyon said:

Saw some flashes worth mentioning tonight:

RB: Benny Cunningham ran really well.... Was disapointed in what I saw from Nall... can't honestly remember Mizzell getting a carry

OLB: Irving and Fitts where both getting pressures. Great to see.

DL: Bullard had his flashes, RRH flashed early, and Bilal Nichols had a couple of plays later.

WR: Wims and Gentry are the only two names I remember... Bellamy had a play early but it's Bellamy... Fowler looks like he doesn't belong on the team.

QBs: I don't really like either of them, but they're backups, if Trubs goes down or otherwise isn't playing we're already in a really bad spot.

DBs: Umm... Bush had a really really solid hit on a dude... and I don't remember ever seeing Tolliver on the field tonight? Didn't really feel like it was too special a day despite the turnovers (most of which off tipped balls)


Other tidbits....

1. we had a forced fumble... with double the number of people near it and didn't end up with the ball... That's bad.

2. Officiating.... No problem with the first quarter lowering your helmet call even if I personally didn't think it was egregious enough to flag.... The late game one where the guy was only lowering his head to get under our TE's arm, not trying to lower his head to land a blow I thought was a terrible call..

3 I also really didn't like the interception we where gifted in the first quarter.... Ball hit the ground and moved in his arm... I think that would have been a clear cut no catch under last years rules, and it's weird now seeing that interception call "stand" as called on the field.

4 The kickoff changes didn't really seem to impact things as much as I expected.

5. The sports casting for the game was infuriating.... The entire point of preseason is getting to see/know players deep on the depth chart and they weren't calling out who was involved on the majority of the plays for much of the game.... Hard to keep track of people flashing (for good or bad) when you don't always get a chance to read their name on their jersey, and you might not know the player's #..... You know something the broadcast should be providing.

Didn't see much of game.  I did see the penalty on Orr and that was insane.  He did it exactly right.  

We have had these head rules in little league and HS football for a long time now.  It was really goofy at first, but then refs started getting it.  It isn't that hard to officiate, but people are freaking out right now about the missed calls.  Rightly so, as they are game changers.    They need to talk to people who have been doing it for awhile.  Pride and arrogance probably says it won't occur to them.   

Here is how it works when you have had rule for awhile or should:

If you initiate contact with the helmet first to any part of body its a penalty.   On offense or defense. That's it.  It's not if helmet touches other player at all during course of a tackle or a run.  That's impossible given size of helmet.  It's also not if offensive player is contacted in helmet at all or shouldn't be.  That is also impossible to avoid in many circumstances as runner gets low.   They made absolute right call on two of the Balt. hits that I saw.  The one on Gentry and I forget what other one.   

The temptation is also to flag hard hits.  It's not about that at all.  Or shouldn't be. 

The solution is that players just have to learn to tackle Rugby style.  Mid to low shoulder hit, wrap and spin.  Seahawks, Alabama, Ohio State and others have been doing that for years now to avoid these penalties.  

Hopefully they get it right before season or games are going to be infuriating.  

 

 

 

 

[Sugashane]

2 hours ago, topwop1 said:

To be fair I never said that Bellamy was a really good special teamer but he is probably one of the few guys from that group who has shown a decent ability to play on special teams. 

I'm all for developing younger talent but the bottom of the depth chart skill position guys need to be able to demonstrate that they are willing to play in the dirty area , which the jury is still out on with guys like Gentry and Wims.

And for as much as Bellamy has shown in the past that he will make easy drops on routine catches, he has also shown a knack for getting open and at least being able to stretch the field.  I don't think he's as bad as people make him out to be on here.  There's a reason he's stuck around this long after all.

I agree on all counts,and wasn't pointing you out specifically. He isn't a liability on ST, but is on offense. He is a good guy to fill a small role, but I keep hearing these arguments making him seem like he is a key cog in that system. He isn't Tru, Hicks, Floyd, Long, etc. He is a pretty decent STer who is being overrated though. He has stuck because he was a very cheap STer who occasionally would make a play on offense. After 6 years on NFL coaching he should be able to make a few catches. I can't parade him for that. He is exactly that, as #5 WR who is meant to play ST and run less than 10 routes a game while real WRs get a breath.

 

Any WR/CB/LB/TE/S/RB (I guess non QB and non-fatman)  that gets drafted from the 5th on should only be done if they are willing to play ST. I'm not throwing Miller out as a gunner, but he has a clear talent for WR that Bellamy never will have. Gentry and Wims need to be able to play on ST or have no role with the team unless it is specifically the PS. If they simply aren't willing to do special teams, then they don't have the heart I want to even be on my roster. Pace might have different beliefs of course, that is just me.

[AZBearsFan]

20 hours ago, IronMike84 said:

If the coaching staff sees ST value, he’s going to stick.

On a similar note, everybody is super high on Wims right now. He’s also going to have to play on the coverage units to stick, else he’s headed for the PS. I don’t see the Bears keeping six WRs and one or zero of them contribute on special teams.

This came up during draft season. We need to have ST players for coverage teams without question, but I don’t know why they have to come from the WR position. There is nothing a WR on coverage teams provides different than what a DB on coverage teams provides. If a reserve WR’s sole purpose for being on the roster is for ST then he should have to show that he’s better in that role than the reserve CBs or safeties IMO. We can have 6 WR who don’t play ST with 2 deactivated every week if all of our reserve DBs add equal or more ST value. For those ST specialists all that matters is that they exist, not what their “position” is. If we have 10 DBs on the roster and all 10 are active every week to fill ST roles I don’t see why that should ever be an issue for anyone. We are gonna have 3 RB, 3 or 4 TE and 4 WR active every week for the most part so it’s not as though we’d need Bellamy for emergency depth in game. 

Or, the NFL could just allow for all 53 to be active on game day. You know, apply the common sense approach. 

[Heinz D.]

On 8/2/2018 at 11:03 PM, AZBearsFan said:

What I liked: Irving, Fitts, RRH, Bush, Wims, NO INJURIES (to either team)

What disappointed me: Fowler, Nall (looks SLOW), not seeing reps for Miller or White

Everything taken with a grain of salt in a game with no starters playing though. 

Pretty much all that. I do have to say I was impressed with Daniel, too. A career backup starting with the third string RB, fourth and fifth (type) WR, backup O-line, in the first pre-season game...I thought he did fairly well.