turtle28 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 On 8/17/2017 at 10:31 PM, Slateman said: But none of your data indicated that they played any better the rest of the season, except for 2012. Those were bad teams. No amount of pre-season was going to change that. Quit moving the goal posts. Thai is answering your question, making his point which is valid and it's the way starters have always been treated in the preseason and you want to bring up something else. Yes, the preseason doesn't affect how a team will play in the middle or end of the season. That's not Thai's point. The point is to have your team ready to play in the beginning of the season. The middle and end of the season are totally different than the beginning because teams by then have been playing 2, 3 or 4 months together and even if that doesn't satisfy you, you know that injuries can totally change the make up of a season as the season goes on, such as Reed being hurt the final month of last year. Here is all the evidence you need that the Redskins starters need to have more live game reps to start the season: Under Jay Gruden the team is 0-3 in every season opener and they've looked out of sync on both sides of the ball, it's a problem. This points out that the skins starters need to play more in the preseason than what Jay has been playing together because they need to develop some kind of chemistry. You can believe whatever you want but I just have this feeling if the skins starters don't play more in this preseason than they did the last two years that you'll be one of the first ones to blame Kirk and the passing game for being out of sync, the OL for not being ready to go, the defense for missing assignments and tackles and blame Jay for not having the team ready to play week 1. Well, the prep for week 1 starts NOW! These next two preseason games are imperative for the starters to get themselves ready to play a whole game week 1, to be conditioned, be in sync and to be able to execute and win that game. Treating these next two weeks like they don't matter at all for our starters will likely spell out a disasterous week 1 division loss to the Eagles. I don't think any of us want to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Draper Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 As pappy used to say- time to stop dicking around and get serious. Thats why I hope Cousins and the first team plays a full first half and has the first drive of the third quarter as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 The goal posts haven't moved. Prove that an increase in reps in pre-season results in improved performance in the season. Most of his examples, the team played like garbage later in the season, after they'd gotten more reps and were conditioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Draper Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Just seems like a generally accepted principle that the more preseason game reps you get the more you are ready to play. You're in better game shape, timing is better, rythym is better and tackling better. the balance is playing vs injury in the preseason. I would play 1st team a half in game 2 and 3 quarters in game 3 I think the biggest determinants to later in season performance is injury vs depth and ability of coaches to adjust, capitalize on opponents weaknesses and not losing games through turnovers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 56 minutes ago, Slateman said: The goal posts haven't moved. Prove that an increase in reps in pre-season results in improved performance in the season. Most of his examples, the team played like garbage later in the season, after they'd gotten more reps and were conditioned. It's not about later in the season, it's about being ready to go week 1 and then through the first few games of the season. The preseason helps to get starters ready for that, nothing more, nothing less. The Preseason has no effect on the season after the first few games of the season. For the starters the preseason is to be used to get them ready for the start of the season. The fact that Thai and I have to even have this discussion with an extremely bright and intelligent poster such as yourself is unbelievable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Prove it. Prove that the pre-season does that. It's vanilla offense vs vanilla defense. Furthermore, you haven't proved that it has any effect on the regular season. Which successful teams heavily play their starters in the pre-season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Draper Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Are there aliens living among us? Are there other planets that have life, Blackholes real? Is it possible to move objects with your mind power? Does playing reps in preseason lead to a positive start for a team? A little mystery in life is good. We all have opinions on all of these. Let's me move on as this seems a circular discussion at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 5 hours ago, Slateman said: Prove it. Prove that the pre-season does that. It's vanilla offense vs vanilla defense. Furthermore, you haven't proved that it has any effect on the regular season. Which successful teams heavily play their starters in the pre-season? The proof is how poorly we've started the first month of the season in each of Gruden's seasons in DC. We are 0-3 in season openers and last year we started off 0-2 and the starters barely played in last year's preseason. No teams "heavily play" their starters in the preseason but most teams play their starters a quarter week 1, a half in week 2 and 3 quarters in week 3 of the preseason. Gruden hasn't played his starters that much since he's been here and we've started off the first month of the season slow each season. This hurts us when we are jockeying for playoff position in December. If you don't want to believe the proof that's fine, but that's the proof on top of what Thai has said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Except those teams were bad or painfully average throughout the season. They played just as poorly at the end of last season as they did at the beginning (remember the games against the Panthers and Giants?) Frankly, your "proof" leads more to the theory that Gruden is simply not a good coach. You've offered anecdotal evidence, which is questionable at best. Who started the season hot and how much did they play their starters in pre-season? How does that compare with the Redskins pre-season tendencies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 On 8/19/2017 at 0:19 PM, Slateman said: Prove it. Prove that the pre-season does that. It's vanilla offense vs vanilla defense. The problem was that our vanilla offense was being manhandled by the Packers' vanilla defense. They need the reps. Kirk needs to get in rhythm with Pryor and Doctson. Lauvao and Long need to remember how to block at a NFL level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 14 hours ago, Woz said: The problem was that our vanilla offense was being manhandled by the Packers' vanilla defense. They need the reps. Kirk needs to get in rhythm with Pryor and Doctson. Lauvao and Long need to remember how to block at a NFL level. Not sure how risking our starting QB is going to help the offensive line block better. I think it's more embarressing that we have two Top 5 picks and another olineman being paid like a first rounder, and we're still complaining about the offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Slateman said: Not sure how risking our starting QB is going to help the offensive line block better. I think it's more embarressing that we have two Top 5 picks and another olineman being paid like a first rounder, and we're still complaining about the offensive line. I agree, but I'll give the Oline a little slack because teams can't hit in practice anymore so they're probably a little rusty. Also, sounds like Spencer Long was playing banged up. Lauvao sucks though, no getting around that. It has been troubling that Scherff and Moses are getting absolutely no push in the run game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 9 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: I agree, but I'll give the Oline a little slack because teams can't hit in practice anymore so they're probably a little rusty. Also, sounds like Spencer Long was playing banged up. Lauvao sucks though, no getting around that. It has been troubling that Scherff and Moses are getting absolutely no push in the run game. I think that the deal with Richmond and the inability to have scrimmages like most other teams has far more to do with this team's struggles early on than the amount of time spent in pre-season games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Slateman said: I think that the deal with Richmond and the inability to have scrimmages like most other teams has far more to do with this team's struggles early on than the amount of time spent in pre-season games. Definitely agree with that and the city of Richmond isn't getting out of it what they thought they would also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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