Interesting case of Khalil Mack

[51to54]

21 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

Let’s be honest here - both sides are using the media to try to pressure the other. Reality of what’s still at dispute is almost surely somewhere in between the two sides we are hearing. At this point after really 3+ months of negotiating both sides are in the wrong. Just get it done already. 

Most certainly. That's why I capitalized 'IF'. Contract propaganda wars.

[dll2000]

On 8/4/2018 at 7:12 PM, Epyon said:

You never get a second chance to make a first impression... As far as I'm concerned, Roquan completely blew his. I cant trust a guy to be a team player and a team leader when he doesn't even respect his team enough to show up to practice with them.

He's 20 or a young 21.  He is listening to other people right now who he hired for their expertise and to look out for his best interests.   If he is anything like majority of these kids on football reality shows he doesn't know anything.  No reason to hate him.

 

[malagabears]

Also no end in sight to Mack's holdout either. And Donald just skipped the reporting day deadline that would have made him a UFA this off season. Instead he will be an RFA. I think both him and Mack are digging their heels in for long holdouts. I wonder if either would risk sitting out the swason.

[malagabears]

Still seeing Mack chatter on Twitter. The Bears have the 2nd highest Vegas odds to trade for him atm.

https://www.oddsshark.com/nfl/khalil-mack-trade-could-be-imminent

[Damikeeeee]

GB being interested is all the more reason why we should be. We need to improve our pass rush and edge presser, he is the guy. Trade our first and pay him. 

[beardown3231]

6 hours ago, malagabears said:

Still seeing Mack chatter on Twitter. The Bears have the 2nd highest Vegas odds to trade for him atm.

https://www.oddsshark.com/nfl/khalil-mack-trade-could-be-imminent

He's obviously a great player and a very durable one, but investing $120M+ into an OLB plus having to probably deal the next two first rounders and then some makes it seem very unlikely on the Bears side.

[Sugashane]

44 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

He's obviously a great player and a very durable one, but investing $120M+ into an OLB plus having to probably deal the next two first rounders and then some makes it seem very unlikely on the Bears side.

IDK. I mean White has had horrible luck with injuries, Floyd is a good but not great player, Tru and Smith are exciting but unproven. After Urlacher and prior to Pace the only 1st rounders that haven't been horrible were Harris, Olsen, Long and Fuller. I doubt two firsts would be dealt by Pace, but I'm not sure I am overly hopeful to get an elite player with our firsts. Especially since I don't expect to be a top 10 picking team either. Plus with Tru on his rookie deal we could afford it.

 

I doubt it happens, but if it did I would be pretty content.

[beardown3231]

37 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

IDK. I mean White has had horrible luck with injuries, Floyd is a good but not great player, Tru and Smith are exciting but unproven. After Urlacher and prior to Pace the only 1st rounders that haven't been horrible were Harris, Olsen, Long and Fuller. I doubt two firsts would be dealt by Pace, but I'm not sure I am overly hopeful to get an elite player with our firsts. Especially since I don't expect to be a top 10 picking team either. Plus with Tru on his rookie deal we could afford it.

 

I doubt it happens, but if it did I would be pretty content.

Then the question remains, does it take two 1's? One 1 + a player? If the latter, who's the player? I know OAK is weak at ILB...Trevathan? Kwiatkoski?

[Sugashane]

2 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Then the question remains, does it take two 1's? One 1 + a player? If the latter, who's the player? I know OAK is weak at ILB...Trevathan? Kwiatkoski?

That is what I was leaning towards. Maybe a 1st and their pick of Trevathan or Kwiatkoski. If they want two picks maybe tossing them one of those guys makes it a 1st and 3rd rather than two firsts. Both would be upgrades for them, they can pursue an EDGE with either their 1st or ours (or trade up to get someone like Bosa, Ferrell, or other stud like Oliver). There are a number of intriguing guys to be looked at as possible FAs too. Ansah, Clowney, Lawrence, and Graham to name some. 

 

It is something to call on and make an offer, but nothing to rely on happening. Gruden is kinda nuts and apparently loved Smith predraft, I'd offer a trade straight up. It would get shot down I'm sure, but there would likely be a counter-offer to give an indication of how close the two sides are at least. Maybe Floyd when he is healthy. Mack seems entrenched in his holdout, likely will go into the regular season.

[IronMike84]

19 hours ago, malagabears said:

Still seeing Mack chatter on Twitter. The Bears have the 2nd highest Vegas odds to trade for him atm.

https://www.oddsshark.com/nfl/khalil-mack-trade-could-be-imminent

I'm tired of it. There are a lot of dumb fans insisting it's inevitable. Nothing about it makes an ounce of sense. This is just a bunch of Madden fanboy fairytale BS.

Why is a GM who has repeatedly stressed a desire to build through the draft going to give up his 2019 and 2020 1st round picks? Just because it's a position need? "Because Mack is a proven commodity?" Give me a break. Not to mention that Pace is already out a 2019 2nd rounder from the Anthony Miller trade.

Here's what's going to happen: the Bears will limp through the season with a by-committee approach at OLB, and Pace will attack the position through both free agency and the draft next year. There's already precedent of him doing this at multiple positions during his tenure.

Trading for Mack makes sense for a team that both has draft capital to spare and is already a playoff contender. It doesn't make sense for a team like the Bears, still fighting to establish themselves.

This is, by far, one of the worst Bears rumors I've heard in a long time. Nobody who thinks there's a high probability of this trade happening has a realistic understanding of this team.

[malagabears]

7 hours ago, IronMike84 said:

I'm tired of it. There are a lot of dumb fans insisting it's inevitable. Nothing about it makes an ounce of sense. This is just a bunch of Madden fanboy fairytale BS.

Why is a GM who has repeatedly stressed a desire to build through the draft going to give up his 2019 and 2020 1st round picks? Just because it's a position need? "Because Mack is a proven commodity?" Give me a break. Not to mention that Pace is already out a 2019 2nd rounder from the Anthony Miller trade.

Here's what's going to happen: the Bears will limp through the season with a by-committee approach at OLB, and Pace will attack the position through both free agency and the draft next year. There's already precedent of him doing this at multiple positions during his tenure.

Trading for Mack makes sense for a team that both has draft capital to spare and is already a playoff contender. It doesn't make sense for a team like the Bears, still fighting to establish themselves.

This is, by far, one of the worst Bears rumors I've heard in a long time. Nobody who thinks there's a high probability of this trade happening has a realistic understanding of this team.

So Mike, by your definition of playoff contender and having draft capital, would you out the Peckers in the category of being able and needing to swing a trade of this type?

[IronMike84]

4 hours ago, malagabears said:

So Mike, by your definition of playoff contender and having draft capital, would you out the Peckers in the category of being able and needing to swing a trade of this type?

Having an extra 1st in 2019, I think it makes them more likely than the Bears.

[AZBearsFan]

23 hours ago, Sugashane said:

That is what I was leaning towards. Maybe a 1st and their pick of Trevathan or Kwiatkoski. If they want two picks maybe tossing them one of those guys makes it a 1st and 3rd rather than two firsts. Both would be upgrades for them, they can pursue an EDGE with either their 1st or ours (or trade up to get someone like Bosa, Ferrell, or other stud like Oliver). There are a number of intriguing guys to be looked at as possible FAs too. Ansah, Clowney, Lawrence, and Graham to name some. 

 

It is something to call on and make an offer, but nothing to rely on happening. Gruden is kinda nuts and apparently loved Smith predraft, I'd offer a trade straight up. It would get shot down I'm sure, but there would likely be a counter-offer to give an indication of how close the two sides are at least. Maybe Floyd when he is healthy. Mack seems entrenched in his holdout, likely will go into the regular season.

I wouldn’t count on Kwiatkowski having any trade value of consequence. Remember, this is a guy we just spent a top 10 pick to replace after getting an extensive look last year with the current defensive staff in place. I like him quite a bit, but reality is that he’s a 2-down LB who’s a liability in the passing game in an increasingly passing dominated league. 

IF a trade were to happen (and I agree with IM84 that it’s far fetched for us) then I’d suspect they’d want an inexpensive but talented player if any player as part of the return, seeing as that the impasse with Mack appears to be purely about money. To me that suggests someone more like Cohen, Goldman, Jackson or maybe Amos. Now, for me I’d give up a 1 and any one of those guys for Mack in a cocaine heartbeat, but I’m still not sure that could top a package GB can put together with an extra first rounder in their pocket. 

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said:

I wouldn’t count on Kwiatkowski having any trade value of consequence. Remember, this is a guy we just spent a top 10 pick to replace after getting an extensive look last year with the current defensive staff in place. I like him quite a bit, but reality is that he’s a 2-down LB who’s a liability in the passing game in an increasingly passing dominated league. 

IF a trade were to happen (and I agree with IM84 that it’s far fetched for us) then I’d suspect they’d want an inexpensive but talented player if any player as part of the return, seeing as that the impasse with Mack appears to be purely about money. To me that suggests someone more like Cohen, Goldman, Jackson or maybe Amos. Now, for me I’d give up a 1 and any one of those guys for Mack in a cocaine heartbeat, but I’m still not sure that could top a package GB can put together with an extra first rounder in their pocket. 

I don't think he would either, but there have been weirder things to happen in trades so he would just be another piece to offer.

 

I don't see the trade happening. But I said I'd throw the offer of a 2nd in this draft and a 4th in 2019 for Peters when trade talks started. Ends up that was a definitively better deal than LA offered and we likely would have Peters here if they had the deal offered. I'd give any of the players you mentioned on the table for Mack as well. Acting quickly and decisively would really be one of the few chances we would have, due to GB's other first.

 

OAK has a starting players galore set for FA in 2019. A top CB in Melvin, TE in Cook, top 2 RBs in Lynch and Martin, FS in Gilchrist, RT in Giacomini, DT/DE in Edwards, MLB in Johnson, DE in Carradine,

 

So to sweeten the deal we have Amukamara, Shaheen, Cohen or even Howard (remember the noise about him not fitting in Nagy's offense? lol), Jackson, Goldman, and DT or Kwiatkoski. Now the Raiders will have approx $44 mil right now, so they aren't struggling with cap issues, but replacing 7 starters after paying out a megadeal isn't an easy task for anyone.

 

A potential offer that could be negotiated up to - 2019 first (will very likely be ahead of GB and NO's picks), our 3rd in 2020 (conditional to a 2nd if he gets 14 or more sacks for example), Jackson or Amos or Goldman, and Trevathan or Kwiatkoski.

 

We would have Smith and DT or Kwiatkoski at ILB, can go after Hankins to replace Goldman if they prefer him over a safety, there are numerous guys that are stopgap players at safety available, etc.

 

I am pretty confident that Pace won't bite, but I would have to still throw a few offers out to see if they are serious or not on it.

[dll2000]

Yeah GB has 2 first rounders, but still has to sign Mack and Rogers wants more money now too.  I don't think they can do it.  They have to cut space as it is to extend Rogers to big new deal.  

Chicago can sign him because of MT rookie deal.   

I would offer 20 million a year for 4 - 5 years.  3 years or 60 million 100% guaranteed - no on field offset language.  I am guessing he wants at least 21 million+ a year, but not many teams are going to do that or can do it.  Donald is going to have same problem.  They are probably waiting or hoping other one signs first to set market.  Not sure it will matter, how many teams can do it AND are willing is real issue.     

Let Raiders have either their choice of player or 1st round pick.  They aren't taking MT with Carr there.  I can't think of anyone else on team I wouldn't give up for Mack or any first round pick in 2019 that would be his equal.   

Does he make you contender in 2018?  No.  But if everything breaks right he could in 2019-21.  

He fills a glaring need on the team at one of most difficult positions to find and he is top 2 at the position entering his prime.

I make the deal if he is healthy and motivated to play for Chicago.