Cyprien Out For The Year

[TitanTuff]

yikes

[TitanSS]

1 hour ago, TitanLegend said:

Nah, Reid is just getting ridiculously over hyped because he's a starting caliber safety that's still a free agent. He's better than Cyp, but again, it's not by a lot. He's a great option to replace Cyp no doubt, but acting like he's some major upgrade is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

And Cyp wasn't getting exposed and dogged on every week. He did play really well in the Chiefs game, and that was probably his only "great"(that word might be stretching it, but he was good), in most other games he was generally around average, sometimes a little below, sometimes right on it, sometimes a little above. He was awful vs Oakland, and I was pretty disappointed in his game vs San Fran, and I also recall a couple issues vs Arizona, but outside of that, he was exactly what we thought he'd be. Decent enough in the box, liability at times in coverage. Just an average guy.

Reid's a slightly better than average guy that doesn't really make that much more of an impact than Cyp.

This 100%. I don't know why people keep acting like other average guys are a huge improvement over our average guy? People act like the Raiders game last year was every single week, when it was actually the outlier. 

Cyprien also wasn't nearly as bad in coverage as advertised. If anything his weak-link was open-field tackles. It's obviously not great when your SS's weakness is open-field tackles, but anyone we're going to bring in this close to the start of the season is going to have at least one weakness that is just as bad. 

I think most people have just refused to let go of their opinion of him from when he was signed. He was overpaid for what he is, but he is exactly what he is.

[TitanRedd]

I like Reid for 1 reason versatility he can play SS off ball LB he can blitz, as far as covering he’s about the same as Cyp, however as we all know case in point Michael Griffin, a pass rush & solid CB play can make a safety look real good & hide some of his weaknesses. 

[titans0021]

24 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

This 100%. I don't know why people keep acting like other average guys are a huge improvement over our average guy? People act like the Raiders game last year was every single week, when it was actually the outlier. 

Cyprien also wasn't nearly as bad in coverage as advertised. If anything his weak-link was open-field tackles. It's obviously not great when your SS's weakness is open-field tackles, but anyone we're going to bring in this close to the start of the season is going to have at least one weakness that is just as bad. 

I think most people have just refused to let go of their opinion of him from when he was signed. He was overpaid for what he is, but he is exactly what he is.

He was almost never asked to actually play coverage. Which is a problem in and of itself. His primary responsibility (and if it wasn't his actual responsibility, it seemed to be the only role that suited him on passing downs), was to let plays happen in front of him and come up and make the tackle in space, which is the one thing he was supposed to be good at, and, as you mentioned, something he frequently struggled with.

He's bad. He is what he is. And that's bad. Maybe not horrifically bad. Maybe not even Michael Griffin bad. But he's a below average starting safety. Going from below average to slightly above average is a real upgrade at any position in football.

I honestly don't know where this concept that Cyprien is an average safety came from. I really thought there was a fairly unanimous agreement that he wasn't good and was easily the weak link in the secondary. He's a weakness that has to be hidden on passing downs in a passing league and in a division that is getting back Andrew Luck and Deshaun Watson. Maybe you can survive with him if the rest of the defense is good. Maybe he's not going to single-handedly drag an entire unit down to his level. But that doesn't make him average.

I'm not happy he's hurt. From all reports he seems to be a good guy and solid in the locker room. But if we go out and sign Eric Reid and replace the biggest weakness on our defense with a solid starter, I'm not going to pretend to be too bummed out about it. 

[titans0021]

Then again, I might have a different definition of average. Decent in the box and a total liability in coverage, to me, does not equate into an average football player. He would need to be incredible near the LOS to make up for his complete inability in the passing game and balance out into an average player.

Then again, I'm also of the belief that the old school strong safety should be a thing of the past anyways. There's not enough power-run football these days for one of your starting safeties to not have at least some ability to read and play the pass. I honestly believe Jayon Brown could play the role that Cyp played last year. You want a safety to essentially just play underneath and be an undersized linebacker, we might as well just use our actual undersized linebacker that has shown a willingness and ability to read the football and make plays on running backs and tight ends.

[titans0021]

Also, I've now turned a thread about a guy tearing his ACL into me relentlessly bashing the guy and now I feel bad.

[ragevsuall17]

I remember a time the whole board thought Lance Schulters was the absolute worst and couldn't wait for Lamont Thompson to take over.  

Then he did...

I feel Cyprien had gotten the same rap. I think he did his job well last year (not an all pro by any stretch of the imagination) ... and because he did it well, it allowed Byard to thrive in his role.  I feel Reid can play that same role,  and why I'd like us to sign him. But then again it's a different defense so maybe that role was changing significantly... I honestly don't know... but I think Reid is the closest to Cyp... whether he's a slight upgrade or not, I think he could do a similar job... and considering the improvements at CB and ILB, that's a good thing for our defense. 

[ttitansfan4life]

I wouldn’t mind them signing two of the 4. Maybe Reid and Webb. Webb can definitely help by being an extra coach on the field knowing the defense. May not make the team but definitely could help the transition for the rest of the players especially in the secondary.

[titans0021]

13 minutes ago, ragevsuall17 said:

I remember a time the whole board thought Lance Schulters was the absolute worst and couldn't wait for Lamont Thompson to take over.  

I mean, the main difference being that Lamont Thompson didn't have five years of below average play as a starter when the board was trying to prop him up as more than he was.

[titans0021]

I guess I also just don't accept that Cyp played his role well. Do we really think that what he did last year is the role a DC actually wants from a starting safety? Stand in the box, let everything happen in front of you, and try to make a tackle in space after a 5-7 yard gain? Zero ball skills and zero playmaking ability while you willfully surrender yards that puts the offense in an easier position to extend drives and miss some tackles that lead to huge plays?

Maybe he played the role his limitations forced him into borderline competently, but I wouldn't use that as a plus personally. You can make the argument that playing him in the box may have helped Byard, but I think you could, just as easily, make the argument that his complete lack of ability to play anything other than that one role likely prevented us from using Byard more creatively. Byard has shown an ability to play near the line as well (and better than Cyp), but those opportunities just didn't present themselves often because the other starting safety couldn't be trusted to ever play deep or hold coverage for more than two seconds or beyond 10 yards.

I still think, in an ideal world, you'd have Byard playing a rover role. But Cyp's presence made that pretty much impossible to do on a consistent basis. I honestly don't know if it would be any better with Reid (particularly given Pees history with traditional safety roles), but at least he has one year in which he's been able to play the pass at a competent level.

[titans0021]

1 hour ago, titans0021 said:

Also, I've now turned a thread about a guy tearing his ACL into me relentlessly bashing the guy and now I feel bad.

Also, I don't actually feel bad. I've been pretty indifferent towards football this offseason for some reason, it's nice to feel like I care again.

[KingTitan]

I don't know if Reid is that much better than in coverage than Cyp.  He doesn't get INTs.  
 

[TitanSS]

I just don't see where Cyprien was that bad. He played the role last year that a lot of stong safeties play. Most aren't asked to centerfield. Finding guys who excel in coverage and playing 2 yards away from a 300 lb offensive linemen isn't easy to do, hence why he was average. If he's slightly below average, then I think we're nit-picking the usage of the word average. Are there 25 safeties in the NFL who had better play than him last year? 20? 

If your perception of him going into the season was that we signed the worst coverage SS in the NFL, chances are you're going to remember more of his bad plays.

After the Oakland game even I was saying we shouldn't have signed him, buy outside of that he was about average. 

I also agree with people wanting Vaccaro because of his name. From what I've heard about him since he entered the league he has always struggled in coverage, but he's a name because he was a top safety going into his draft. Definitely dont see him as an upgrade.

[615finest]

With our depth I hope we sign 2 safties.. Reid/Vaccaro and possibly Webb just for the simple fact he knows the defense

[ragevsuall17]

21 minutes ago, titans0021 said:

but I think you could, just as easily, make the argument that his complete lack of ability to play anything other than that one role likely prevented us from using Byard more creatively.

So forget that 2nd year player had an All Pro season playing alongside such a horrible safety.. we need to be more creative with him.  Forget that ther defense improved by better than a point per game and 30 yards per game (even with the Houston debacle)... and .ore specifically, forget that the rush defense went from giving up 4.0 per pop and 10 tds in '16 to 3.6 a pop and 5 tds last year (with no notable additions to the front 7)...

Forget all that. Jags fans said Cyp was the worst so he's the worst.

Cyp is not an all pro or above average... but he played his role well in our defense last year... and if the role is expected to stay the same,  Reid is comparable, and should help us maintain a similar level or effectiveness on D from that spot.