Cyprien Out For The Year

[titans0021]

Just now, ragevsuall17 said:

So forget that 2nd year player had an All Pro season playing alongside such a horrible safety.. we need to be more creative with him.  Forget that ther defense improved by better than a point per game and 30 yards per game (even with the Houston debacle)... and .ore specifically, forget that the rush defense went from giving up 4.0 per pop and 10 tds in '16 to 3.6 a pop and 5 tds last year (with no notable additions to the front 7)...

Forget all that. Jags fans said Cyp was the worst so he's the worst.

Cyp is not an all pro or above average... but he played his role well in our defense last year... and if the role is expected to stay the same,  Reid is comparable, and should help us maintain a similar level or effectiveness on D from that spot.

Yes, we should be more creative with him. I don't think last year was his ceiling, he was named All Pro because of a high interception total while actually only having interceptions in four (I believe) games. If last year was the best he ever gets, we're fine, but I think he can be a far more versatile safety than the role he played last season.

Beyond that, he had four of his eight interceptions while Cyprien wasn't playing. Should we give Da'Norris Searcy real credit for Byard being an all-pro? Are we pretending that Cyprien was the cause of the defensive improvement? Not replacing our disastrous 2016 corners with Logan Ryan and Adoree Jackson, but bringing in Cyp was the difference? 

In the games Cyp missed last year, opponents averaged 4.0 (almost exclusively because of Bortles, guess we were missing our QB spy in Cyp), 3.1, 4.1, 3.2, 4.5 and 2.5 yards per rushing attempt. Overall, the total comes out to about 3.6 yards per attempt. Which yeah, matches the season average. If you factor in the playoffs, we allowed a higher yards per attempt total in games he played than in games he missed.

He was bad last year. If he played his role competently, it's only because his role was so mind-numbingly simple and tailored to the significant handicaps of his game that he couldn't really do a huge amount of damage even when he failed. The idea that we're trying to give him any sort of credit for Byard's success has left me so incredibly lost that I don't even know where to go with this. 

[titans0021]

39 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

I don't know if Reid is that much better than in coverage than Cyp.  He doesn't get INTs.  
 

Reid can cover tight ends. Admittedly, he isn't going to play a ton of centerfield or significantly alter Byard's role, but he showed last year that he can stick with tight ends and running backs in coverage, which is a lot more than Cyp has shown in five years.

[titans0021]

If I say he's average in a role that 95% of starting safeties in the NFL could also be at least average in, is that enough? Or that the defense wasn't any notably worse but also not any notably better with Da'Norris Searcy on the field? Because that's where I'd rank him among NFL safeties. Right alongside Da'Norris Searcy.

[SerenityNow]

33 minutes ago, titans0021 said:

Reid can cover tight ends. Admittedly, he isn't going to play a ton of centerfield or significantly alter Byard's role, but he showed last year that he can stick with tight ends and running backs in coverage, which is a lot more than Cyp has shown in five years.

Bingo. That's all I'm asking for in our SS. Someone that is able to cover TEs and RBs consistently which is something Cyp has never been able to do. Ideally I'd like a SS that was versatile enough to move around in coverage with Byard which is one of the reasons I was so high on Justin Reid in the draft, but at this stage in the offseason, if we can get an Eric Reid or a Vaccaro who are both more competent in covering RBs and TEs while also still being able to play closer to the LOS in run support I'll definitely take that over Cyp who has never shown the ability to do much of anything in coverage.

[ragevsuall17]

37 minutes ago, titans0021 said:

Yes, we should be more creative with him. I don't think last year was his ceiling, he was named All Pro because of a high interception total while actually only having interceptions in four (I believe) games. If last year was the best he ever gets, we're fine, but I think he can be a far more versatile safety than the role he played last season.

Beyond that, he had four of his eight interceptions while Cyprien wasn't playing. Should we give Da'Norris Searcy real credit for Byard being an all-pro? Are we pretending that Cyprien was the cause of the defensive improvement? Not replacing our disastrous 2016 corners with Logan Ryan and Adoree Jackson, but bringing in Cyp was the difference? 

In the games Cyp missed last year, opponents averaged 4.0 (almost exclusively because of Bortles, guess we were missing our QB spy in Cyp), 3.1, 4.1, 3.2, 4.5 and 2.5 yards per rushing attempt. Overall, the total comes out to about 3.6 yards per attempt. Which yeah, matches the season average. If you factor in the playoffs, we allowed a higher yards per attempt total in games he played than in games he missed.

He was bad last year. If he played his role competently, it's only because his role was so mind-numbingly simple and tailored to the significant handicaps of his game that he couldn't really do a huge amount of damage even when he failed. The idea that we're trying to give him any sort of credit for Byard's success has left me so incredibly lost that I don't even know where to go with this. 

No he wasn't the sole reason we improved... but he was certainly part of the equation. Acting like our defense improved in spite of him is wrong. Its that simple. He played his box safety position le was expected of him. Nobody else on the roster can play that role... the team knows that and that's why they're bringing the best of whats left at the position... hopefully they can play at a similar level... and help the defense perform at the level we're expecting them to. 

[Titans fan 617]

Anyone start following the planes that the Safety’s were on yet? ?

[titans0021]

23 minutes ago, ragevsuall17 said:

No he wasn't the sole reason we improved... but he was certainly part of the equation. Acting like our defense improved in spite of him is wrong. Its that simple. He played his box safety position le was expected of him. Nobody else on the roster can play that role... the team knows that and that's why they're bringing the best of whats left at the position... hopefully they can play at a similar level... and help the defense perform at the level we're expecting them to. 

I honestly don’t think our defense improved in spite of him, I just think he had no impact on the improvement. The numbers kind of bear that out. There was very minimal difference statistically between Cyp starting and Searcy starting.

And that’s including the Texans game in Searcy’s stats and I’m not sure anyone can argue that Cyprien would’ve prevented that disaster given that almost all the damage was done through the air.

My original argument was that it’s not a real loss and that there’s a real opportunity to upgrade the position. I genuinely believe that he was the least important starter on the entire team. His role last year was just so insignificant that it would’ve been practically impossible for him to have the kind of negative impact a guy like Griffin did. He could almost never solely be blamed for big plays because the coaches were terrified of ever putting him in that kind of situation.

On a related note, sorry if I came across as a hostile asshat, you know I’ve got plenty of respect for you rage.

[Titan89]

Sucks to lose a starter in Cyprien for the year in training camp. I don't think Reid or Vacarro is an upgrade on him. All on the same level imo except Cyprien was with the Titans and had more chemistry with teammates. Whoever takes over the SS spot I am not expecting a world beater just do your job. Don't need to be an all pro. We already have that in Byard at the safety spot.

[TitanSS]

11 hours ago, SerenityNow said:

Bingo. That's all I'm asking for in our SS. Someone that is able to cover TEs and RBs consistently which is something Cyp has never been able to do. Ideally I'd like a SS that was versatile enough to move around in coverage with Byard which is one of the reasons I was so high on Justin Reid in the draft, but at this stage in the offseason, if we can get an Eric Reid or a Vaccaro who are both more competent in covering RBs and TEs while also still being able to play closer to the LOS in run support I'll definitely take that over Cyp who has never shown the ability to do much of anything in coverage.

Again, I failed to see Cyprien being a huge liability in coverage against RBs last year. He wasn't even that atrocious against TEs. 

You're certain not getting "better" coverage from Kenny freaking Vaccaro. To want him over Cyprien is to want change just for the sake of change.

I'm not trying to say he's great or anything, he's not, but to act like the vast majority of SSs in the NFL are better than him is just untrue.

I would prefer a more all around safety rather than a true SS as well, but their are very few of those guys, and I don't think that means Cyprien sucks because he is a different type of player. Honestly, I'd love to have two Kevin Byards.

[TitanRedd]

1 hour ago, TitanSS said:

Again, I failed to see Cyprien being a huge liability in coverage against RBs last year. He wasn't even that atrocious against TEs. 

You're certain not getting "better" coverage from Kenny freaking Vaccaro. To want him over Cyprien is to want change just for the sake of change.

I'm not trying to say he's great or anything, he's not, but to act like the vast majority of SSs in the NFL are better than him is just untrue.

I would prefer a more all around safety rather than a true SS as well, but their are very few of those guys, and I don't think that means Cyprien sucks because he is a different type of player. Honestly, I'd love to have two Kevin Byards.

Keep in mind this, Cyp is good in coverage when playing zone, his weakness is he can’t cover in man, he has tight hips & no ball skills, he wasn’t bad as everyone trying to make it out, but again I see Reid as a better player because of his versatility 

[ragevsuall17]

9 hours ago, titans0021 said:

I honestly don’t think our defense improved in spite of him, I just think he had no impact on the improvement. The numbers kind of bear that out. There was very minimal difference statistically between Cyp starting and Searcy starting.

And that’s including the Texans game in Searcy’s stats and I’m not sure anyone can argue that Cyprien would’ve prevented that disaster given that almost all the damage was done through the air.

My original argument was that it’s not a real loss and that there’s a real opportunity to upgrade the position. I genuinely believe that he was the least important starter on the entire team. His role last year was just so insignificant that it would’ve been practically impossible for him to have the kind of negative impact a guy like Griffin did. He could almost never solely be blamed for big plays because the coaches were terrified of ever putting him in that kind of situation.

On a related note, sorry if I came across as a hostile asshat, you know I’ve got plenty of respect for you rage.

No offense taken, no worries... and the respect is replicated from this end.  I'm just baffled you think there's a clear upgrade at a starting position in the FA market at this stage in the offseason. Maybe the playoffs are what stick out in my mind.  Cyp had a good playoff run... I'd even argue he wasn't just average, but he was one of our better defensive players during the 2 game stretch (small sample size, but bigger stage). 

I think Reid is a good replacement... as he's about the same level... not great, not terrible... average... and plays that similar in the box safety role... who would probably be best suited in a hybrid LB position.  Many people seem high on Vaccaro, but I honestly didn't see enough of him to know one way or another, and now that I'm reading, it seems he just hasn't been very good... Webb would be the worst option of the 4 for me... and I think he'd force Byard into that SS role more often than we want to...  Mitchell could intriguing... depending on the role they expect him to play... I know he's slowed down and struggled in that deep FS, last line of defense role... but his speed wouldn't be as much as an issue if he's tasked with a role that doesn't have him in the deep half of the field.  He may not be able to keep up with WRs running deep, but I don't think he has a problem with TE's and RB's underneath... and he at least has the experience of playing FS, which would allow Byard more flexibility (I don't think he needs this... while he could probably play the more flexible Polamalu role, we're not misusing him by playing him in the Reed role).

[ttitansfan4life]

 

[titans0021]

I am going to take it as a good sign that we haven’t signed a safety today then.

[ttitansfan4life]

 

[KingTitan]

If we go the predictable route, we sign LaDarius Webb.