Kahlil Mack

[Pandomonium]

There are rumors circulating that the Raiders may be shopping him because they don't want to pay him. and Gruden has come out saying that " the defense wasn't great with him on it last year"
 

do you think if we offered them Armstead, Ward, and maybe a 3rd they'd bite at that?

here's my rationale:

-both are Baalke guys

-Ward is oft injured and is going to be paid WAAAAY too much to be a backup if he doesn't crack the starting lineup at the start of the season

- Armsead is oft injured as well

-Armstead has never really taken off in our system

_the raiders have a DB in Darryl Worley that may face a lengthy suspension soon and may need DB help (ward)

- WE are DESPERATE for a premier pass-rusher and IMO that's really the only thing we have missing from making us be considered as true contenders THIS year by many analysts

-finally, WE can afford to pay the man what he wants

 

Thoughts?

[Pandomonium]

also you could exchange Garnett with either of those other players i mentioned above. He would fit their scheme better

[Forge]

3 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

do you think if we offered them Armstead, Ward, and maybe a 3rd they'd bite at that?

Dear god no. Like...no. Just no. Armstead and Ward have no value. Garnett has no value (particluarly for the Raiders who have one of the best guard tandems in football with Osemele and Jackson). 

1st round pick + for Mack at the very least. I'm open to First / Second / Conditional (or player). I think that gets it done. Jared Allen was traded for a 1st and 2 thirds and a swap of sixths with a similar situation. I don't think the market will require two firsts (though conceivably I suppose it could), but way more than what you're offering. 

[Pandomonium]

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

Dear god no. Like...no. Just no. Armstead and Ward have no value. Garnett has no value (particluarly for the Raiders who have one of the best guard tandems in football with Osemele and Jackson). 

meh it was just a thought.
I'd really like to have Mack

and I'd really like to offload these guys, they are dead weight taking roster spots from young guys who may have more potential.

 

 

[Forge]

Just now, Pandomonium said:

meh it was just a thought.
I'd really like to have Mack

and I'd really like to offload these guys, they are dead weight taking roster spots from young guys who may have more potential.

 

 

Ward will be gone next year. Armstead possibly as well. We picked up his option, but if he's healthy and doesn't perform this year, I believe we can rescind that after the physical should he pass it. Both guys will likely be gone soon enough. Ward for sure. Garnett I'd be a little surprised if he's on the roster week 1, though given the issues on our interior line, he may still be there. 

[Pandomonium]

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

Ward will be gone next year. Armstead possibly as well. We picked up his option, but if he's healthy and doesn't perform this year, I believe we can rescind that after the physical should he pass it. Both guys will likely be gone soon enough. Ward for sure. Garnett I'd be a little surprised if he's on the roster week 1, though given the issues on our interior line, he may still be there. 

I would like to get something for them even if its a ham sandwich and some pringles 

all three are 1st round busts and you know that old saying "one man's garbage is another man's gold" 

somebody may think they can do something with them

[StevenK]

7 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

I would like to get something for them even if its a ham sandwich and some pringles 

all three are 1st round busts and you know that old saying "one man's garbage is another man's gold" 

somebody may think they can do something with them

While true, you have to consider they haven't been able to play a full season either. They are consistently injured. Heck, isn't Armstead day to day with an injury as of right now? 

[Forge]

3 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

I would like to get something for them even if its a ham sandwich and some pringles 

all three are 1st round busts and you know that old saying "one man's garbage is another man's gold" 

somebody may think they can do something with them

Ward has a 9 million dollar cap hit and can't stay on the field. And his money is fully guaranteed. There's no trade value there whatsoever. And he's banged up again. Just have to play that one out. His cap hit alone would knock out nearly half the teams in the NFL who don't have that level of cap space to afford him without making other roster moves. Add in that there other corners still available such as DRC, Bashaud Breeland (assuming he's healthy), and a few others that you could get really cheap, makes way more sense to just sign one of them. 

The team seems to still be somewhat high on Armstead, or at least believe that he has more value to us than whatever we could get in exchange (maybe a swap of picks at this point? A 6th or 7th rounder maybe?). He actually isn't awful on an efficiency basis, he just can't stay on the field. And he's once again banged up now. Though he's frustrated me to death, and I wasn't a fan of the selection to begin with, I can't say I blame the team for taking this direction when I take a breath and think about it. 

Garnett's top end value is probably a 6th rounder based on similar trades, but he hasn't played in a year, is hurt once again, etc. I'd like to move on from him, but if he can't get healthy, probably not going to happen. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

Throw in Zane Beadles, Chilo Rachal and Jordan Devey while you're at it lol. 

Better throw in a 1st and another high pick to have any chance of the Raiders taking you serious. 

[Pandomonium]

8 minutes ago, Forge said:

Ward has a 9 million dollar cap hit and can't stay on the field. And his money is fully guaranteed. There's no trade value there whatsoever. And he's banged up again. Just have to play that one out. His cap hit alone would knock out nearly half the teams in the NFL who don't have that level of cap space to afford him without making other roster moves. Add in that there other corners still available such as DRC, Bashaud Breeland (assuming he's healthy), and a few others that you could get really cheap, makes way more sense to just sign one of them. 

The team seems to still be somewhat high on Armstead, or at least believe that he has more value to us than whatever we could get in exchange (maybe a swap of picks at this point? A 6th or 7th rounder maybe?). He actually isn't awful on an efficiency basis, he just can't stay on the field. And he's once again banged up now. Though he's frustrated me to death, and I wasn't a fan of the selection to begin with, I can't say I blame the team for taking this direction when I take a breath and think about it. 

Garnett's top end value is probably a 6th rounder based on similar trades, but he hasn't played in a year, is hurt once again, etc. I'd like to move on from him, but if he can't get healthy, probably not going to happen. 

The points you're making are great ....I can't begin to argue with what you're saying

so what do you think it would take to get Mack here? presuming the trade rumors are true.

[Forge]

1 minute ago, Pandomonium said:

The points you're making are great ....I can't begin to argue with what you're saying

so what do you think it would take to get Mack here? presuming the trade rumors are true.

Personally, I think 1 + 2 gets it done. If you want add a sweetener in the form of a conditional pick or a player (maybe someone like armstead has "sweetener" value), I'm good with that as well. I Know @PapaShogun brought up the idea of Foster being a piece in a deal. I'm not inclined to do that, but it's a fascinating thought. Bears fans have tossed out the idea of throwing out Roquan in a trade too, which is very interesting. 

I've said it multiple times in other places, but Jared Allens trade, though dated, is the most reasonable comparison. He went for 1 / 3 / 3 / swap of 6ths. I think the market for Mack is highly limited so I can't see the trade value getting up to two firsts. 

The more important question would be how do we structure our big money deals after the fact. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

17 minutes ago, Forge said:

Personally, I think 1 + 2 gets it done. If you want add a sweetener in the form of a conditional pick or a player (maybe someone like armstead has "sweetener" value), I'm good with that as well. I Know @PapaShogun brought up the idea of Foster being a piece in a deal. I'm not inclined to do that, but it's a fascinating thought. Bears fans have tossed out the idea of throwing out Roquan in a trade too, which is very interesting. 

I've said it multiple times in other places, but Jared Allens trade, though dated, is the most reasonable comparison. He went for 1 / 3 / 3 / swap of 6ths. I think the market for Mack is highly limited so I can't see the trade value getting up to two firsts. 

The more important question would be how do we structure our big money deals after the fact. 

Yep, we could front load it with having a bunch of cap space next year and Jimmy G only being counted around 20 million I believe. But then you know he will be wanting a new deal after a few years when his salary goes down. Honestly, right now is the time to make a move for someone like Mack. Like I mentioned yesterday, not out of the realm of possibility that more than half our starters in 2019 will be from the 2017/2018 drafts. So we will have a bunch of starters on rookie deals. It's actually one of the reason the Jimmy G contract matters less to our team compared to other big money QBs. 

If we are able to get the deal done with a 1st and 2nd, then man our two best players would have been obtained via a 1st and two 2nds. Unreal trade off lol.

[757-NINER]

I'll repost what I said in the other thread but I'm all for going after Mack. Pass-rushers are almost like QBs...hitting on a really good one is like finding a needle in a haystack. And Mack isn't just good, he's elite. And he's well-rounded, as he's a force against the run as well. As good as Lynch & Co have been with their round 3 -7 picks, I'd gladly give up a first and a second for Mack. Hell, I'd give them two firsts. Yes we still have some holes but adding Mack would eliminate the biggest and most difficult hole on the roster to fill. I'd do it w/o hesitation and that's rare for me because I'm always a advocate of drafting your star players instead of signing them from other teams. But as you stated, Mack is a rare case where your getting a bonafide star player as he enters his prime.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

Mack has also started every game in his four year career thus far. 

As bashful as I am about proclaiming this current squad as a playoff contender, if we got Mack we'd be instant Super Bowl contenders. At least in PapaShogun world.

[John232]

I do think giving them Ward and Armstead actually helps them to some degree. I don't think they are pure "junk". They've shown to be solid players if nothing else WHEN healthy. (Big if). 

 

That said, any trade for Mack is going to involve at least 1 first and a second. Those two guys might just alleviate parting with like a fourth or fifth. And from everything i've read, the Raiders secondary has been ROUGH in camp. Ward might really interest them.