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May I just say...DeCastro...


Ward4HOF

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I wanted Riley Reiff or David DeCastro.  Reiff was my preference, but I was a bit biased there too since he's a SD boy and I'd watched him since he was a true freshman (progressing from OG to RT to  LT over time) at Iowa.  When pick 23 rolled around and they were both there, I just had to hope the FO wouldn't screw it up and pass on the remaining one.  They didn't, thankfully.  Meanwhile, Reiff was a rock solid LT for the Vikings last year (I still think he'd be an all pro caliber OG if he was played there) and DeCastro IS an all pro OG.  Couldn't have went wrong with either of those guys.  

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On 8/10/2018 at 10:48 AM, Ward4HOF said:

Ugh...I just closed my post...so, starting over...again...

I understand what you are saying, but aside from Wagner and Smith, none of those players can claim to be at the top of their respective position, so while Bobby Wagner, Russell Wilson, Harrison Smith, and Kirk Cousins, I would expect, would be drafted ahead of DD right now in a re-draft, the likes of Josh Norman, LaMarr Miller, Dont'a Hightower, Whitney Mercilus, T.Y. Hilton, or Janoris Jenkins don't hold a candle to DD. And Kelechi Osemele is, at best, the 5th? 6th? best OG, so H2H, he loses out and would be somewhere in the late teens/20s, due to positional value. THAT is where the drop off happens, IMO, not for the best player AT that position. They are all very good players, but they all easily file in line behind DD in a re-draft.

DD is the guy, along with Pouncey on a bit less effectual level, that makes those 'holes' that Le'Veon oh, so patiently waits to open for him.  Without those opening, he's JAG.  DD can make your RB look like a star...well, at least make him look better than he really is, at the very least.

So basically, IMO, DD is picked 5th, maybe 6th, in case there were 1 or 2 other players you didn't mention that we are all forgetting from that draft.

 

I was not clear .  While DD might be one of the best players in the draft, because he plays at an undervalued position, even in a redraft he would go later than you would expect.  For the Steelers, i am happy they got the best OG in the draft and he has played like a #1 pick.

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10 hours ago, jebrick said:

I was not clear .  While DD might be one of the best players in the draft, because he plays at an undervalued position, even in a redraft he would go later than you would expect.  For the Steelers, i am happy they got the best OG in the draft and he has played like a #1 pick.

Agree about this. How often have our RD1 picks actually played like a RD1  in the last decade?

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Well, Jarvis Jones, Bud Dupree, Rashard Mendenhall, Ziggy Hood have been our biggest busts. 3/4 of those are on defense. Pretty telling as to why our defense is so bad. When you couple that with how often we miss in the 2md and 3rd rounds, its pretty bad tbh. We still draft better than most 

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2 hours ago, wwhickok said:

Well, Jarvis Jones, Bud Dupree, Rashard Mendenhall, Ziggy Hood have been our biggest busts. 3/4 of those are on defense. Pretty telling as to why our defense is so bad. When you couple that with how often we miss in the 2md and 3rd rounds, its pretty bad tbh. We still draft better than most 

Not worth getting into anymore. People who want to think we draft poorly will continue to no matter how much we show them we draft well compared to others. 

To me what’s the telling thing is we only have 3 starters that were not drafted/UDFA signed by this team: Burnett, Haden, Villanueva. 

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I like to point out that the Steelers have not drafted in the top 10 since 2000.  Not top 3 or top 5.  You do not do that on luck.  Just happens to be Colbert's first year as GM.

 

But the Steelers have no idea what they are doing in the draft:D

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9 hours ago, warfelg said:

Not worth getting into anymore. People who want to think we draft poorly will continue to no matter how much we show them we draft well compared to others. 

To me what’s the telling thing is we only have 3 starters that were not drafted/UDFA signed by this team: Burnett, Haden, Villanueva. 

I agree with that, my point was in key areas on defense where we are we we have drafted people in the first round who have not succeeded. Timmons is an exception, he just moved on, he wasnt a failure.

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8 hours ago, wwhickok said:

I agree with that, my point was in key areas on defense where we are we we have drafted people in the first round who have not succeeded. Timmons is an exception, he just moved on, he wasnt a failure.

Hayward, Shazier?  Burns and Watt are too soon to make a decision on.

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12 hours ago, warfelg said:

Hayward, Shazier?  Burns and Watt are too soon to make a decision on.

I meant, i may not have made myself clear, that LB, S, are our big issues right now. We have taken 2 OLBs not named Watt that have helped create those problems. We had been making strides but our rare failures are in our areas of current issues.

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7 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Watt is too soon.

Writing is on the wall for Burnd.

I agree, unless Burns has an immaculate season this season, I just feel like this was another 'project player' that hasn't worked out.  Everything that they hoped they could get out of him, they haven't been able to.  He has shown flashes but has also been a liability in our defense.  

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They've taken too many chances on raw athletes that havent worked out.   Shazier worked out, but even he had his inconsistencies.   

Im okay with factoring in athleticism and taking chances on raw players with high upside in the right situations (particularly in the mid rounds ala Martavis), but some of them simply werent good picks to begin with.    IMO, Burns never had particularly high upside, despite being raw.    His lack of natural instincts will always hold him back.   Reminds me too much of Ike Taylor...who I was never a big fan of....but at least we got Ike in the 4th.

Only hope I have for Burns and even Sean Davis is the fact that we have a new secondary coach, but its not much hope.  

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47 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

They've taken too many chances on raw athletes that havent worked out.   Shazier worked out, but even he had his inconsistencies.   

Im okay with factoring in athleticism and taking chances on raw players with high upside in the right situations (particularly in the mid rounds ala Martavis), but some of them simply werent good picks to begin with.    IMO, Burns never had particularly high upside, despite being raw.    His lack of natural instincts will always hold him back.   Reminds me too much of Ike Taylor...who I was never a big fan of....but at least we got Ike in the 4th.

Only hope I have for Burns and even Sean Davis is the fact that we have a new secondary coach, but its not much hope.  

I'd rather get a 'safer' athletic player that has a slightly lower ceiling than an athlete whose potential is higher but is far more raw.  Burns was a 'long-shot' 1st rounder that was actually more expected to go in the 2nd round, he wasn't necessarily considered a reach at the time.  Xavien Howard realistically imo was the only other guy that I feel could've succeeded at the position at that point.

I don't know what peoples' reaction would've been to it, but some of the most significant players taken after Burns (in the 2nd round) were as follows:

 

#4 TE Hunter Henry/SD

#5 OLB Myles Jack/Jax

#10 ILB Reggie Ragland/Bills (now Chiefs)

#21 OLB Deion Jones/ATL

 

In the 2016 Draft we took 2 back to back DB's, Artie Burns and Sean Davis.  At the time, they didn't look atrocious necessarily but in retrospect they were horrible selections.  Kevin Byard btw was also the first pick in the first round, a significantly more successful Safety than Davis.  

 

Let's look deeper at the 2016 Draft:

 

1 CB Artie Burns

2 S Sean Davis

3 DT Javon Hargrave

4 OT Jerald Hawkins

6 OLB Travis Feeney

7 Demarcus Ayers

7 Tyler Matakevich 

 

Barring some sort of miraculous turn around, 2 of those players deserve a roster spot next season at best.  Javon Hargrave and Tyler Matakevich.  It's not a compliment however that a former 7th round pick is contending for a starting role (which he won't get) as an ILB.  

Hawkins hasn't proven anything, Burns and Davis have bust all over them, Ayers is long gone as is Travis Feeney.  If we're being completely honest, while I wouldn't call Hargrave a bust, he isn't a world beater either but I feel we're getting the worth of a 3rd round pick out of him.

It's really bad when you can look at a draft 2 years ago and say the best thing you got from it is a 3rd and 7th round pick.

 

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For arguments sake I wanted to point out our 2015 draft..

1.  Bud Dupree

2. Senquez Golson

3. Sammie Coates

4. Doran Grant

5. Jesse James

6. DL Leterrius Walton

6. Anthony Chickillo

7. Gerod Holliman

 

Walton is a back up DE (mediocre at best).  Chickillo could actually potentially beat out the 1st round pick taken in the same draft for the starting role?  Jesse James, a 5th round pick is the best pick taken in the draft and as of the start of NEXT season could be the only player remaining on our roster from that draft....   This "regime" regardless of our history in the draft, has not done well recently.  That is a fact.

 

Because this thread was originally about Decastro I started from that draft.  I omitted the 2017 and 2018 draft classes because of the fact that they are so new and still developing that we don't really know what they are, but as a positive the majority of those players are still currently on the roster.  

 

Since the 2012 draft,  10/41 Players are still on the roster.  

Landry Jones, Le'Veon Bell, Daniel McCullers, Sean Davis (Artie Burns, Bud Dupree) are among those guys.  The first 4 are very likely to not be on the roster next season.

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