Does Rivers make the HoF?

[Zappaz]

5 hours ago, Raves said:

I would honestly be surprised if Brady, Brees, and P.Manning aren't 1st ballot HOFers when it's their time, Rodgers I think would be a 1st ballot HOFer but if he continues to have injury prone seasons I could see him having to wait a couple years.

Rivers I don't think will make it, he accumulated stats in an era where it's easy to do but not nearly as well as some others.  Eli will get in due to the SB wins over Brady and that's it.

I don't see how you can say that when he is in the top 8 or so in career bulk stats with the potential to be top 5 in a few before he hangs it up. Top 5 career means there was at best 4 guys better in that category. lol

 

8 hours ago, ChazStandard said:

I think Rodgers at least MUST go first ballot, don't see an argument for holding him back. Yes, they both (currently) only have one ring, but for the most part that's not their fault.

If that is how you want to think about it, which I believe is fair considering it is a TEAM sport, then Rivers should be a lock for HoF right? 

 

 

Except for 2007, when he played in the AFCCG without an ACL, his post season stats aren't that good.... but the defenses he played against were pretty good.

2006 - First year starting he lost to NE who was 2nd in points against and 6th in yards against during the season. (Marlon Mccree fumble INT cost them this game and probably a ring)

2007 - Beat Titans who were 8th in points against and 5th in yards against, Beat Indy who were 1st in points against and 3rd in yards against, Lost to NE who was 4th in points against and 4th in yards against (4 days after the dug into his knee for his ACL plus no LT/Gates)

2008 - Beat Indy who were 7th in points against and 11th in yards against, Lost to Pitt who were 1st in points against and 1st in yards against

2009 - Lost to Jets who were 1st in points against and 1st in yards against (Kaeding missed 3 FGs all year, then missed 3 FGs in a single playoff game)

2013 - Beat Cincy who were 6th in points against and 3rd in yards against, Lost to Den who was 22nd in points against and 19th in yards against

So yes he is 4-5 in the playoffs but besides the loss in 13' to Denver he has played against top 5 defenses basically each time.

San Diego never had a truly dominant defense either. Here is where they finished in points against and yards against:

2006 - 7th / 10th

2007 - 5th / 14th

2008 - 15th / 25th

2009 - 11th / 16th

2013 - 11th / 23rd

Most years the Chargers defense was at best middle of the road as you can see. 

[game3525]

Rivers punched his ticket into the HOF after last season. 

 

Quote

Agree, all 3 QBs are so up and down year to year and thats what separates them from guys like Payton, Brady, Brees, Ben and Rodgers. Rivers, Eli and Palmer have always sort of been in that second tier below them based off of peak level and consistency.

Rivers and Eli will probably get in, but IMO they will have to wait a few years and sneak in when there is an opening in a  weak class.

This is not accurate at all. 

Rivers has been remarkably consistent. It is the main reason why he will get into the HOF.  He has never been as up and down as Palmer or Eli has been as starters. 

[TitanLegend]

He'll probably get in, but he doesn't belong.

Isn't and never has been a consistently elite player, just a pretty good QB for a long time.

[patriotsheatyan]

How does his career compare to Warren Moon, Dan Fouts, Jim Kelly, and a few of the other weaker HoF QBs? What does he need to do to match them?

[showtime]

On 8/13/2018 at 1:59 PM, Forge said:

Pro bowls are kind of a joke though

They should be a joke, but they're not.  I've always said this - Making pro bowls is very important for a great player's legacy.  Often times those are some of the first accolades people say when they introduce a player.  Pro bowls still mean you are one of the best players at your position to a lot of people.  If someone makes ten pro bowls (like someone was saying Rivers could potentially do) that shows a huge amount of consistency in his play and this is during an era where there have been all-time greats.  I mean, you could argue when it's all said and done that Brady and Manning are two of the top three QB's ever and he played in the same conference as those two his entire career (until Manning retired).  Then you have Big Ben in the AFC as well.  Making it to the pro bowl in the AFC was really difficult.

[megatechpc]

I've never been a big fan of Rivers personally but I think he has absolutely done enough in his career stats-wise to have a good shot at the Hall.  He's consistently been one of the top QB's in the league each and every year since 2004 and his career stats are already better than many HOF QB's.  Similar to Marino, playing for consistently weak franchises who can't surround him with balanced and talented teams shouldn't be held against a player whose personal abilities are clearly HOF-worthy.  Football is the ultimate team sport and even the greatest QB of all time can't do it all by himself.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

11 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

How does his career compare to Warren Moon, Dan Fouts, Jim Kelly, and a few of the other weaker HoF QBs? What does he need to do to match them?

Fouts and Kelly were first team All Pros. Moon never was, did make 9 Pro Bowls, back when the voting was less of a joke. He was also a second team All Pro in 1990. Don't think Rivers was ever even that. Moon's contributions in Canada, and being a pioneer for black quarterbacks probably helped his case. 

Not saying Rivers couldn't hang with those guys, it's just due how to HOF process seems to go Rivers doesn't really have the accolades that stack up. Perceptions have changed over time since certain players were elected. 

[TENINCH]

Rivers imo is definitely a Hall of Famer.

[sammymvpknight]

If Rivers gets in...the bar will be set even lower the next time. Rivers isn’t and has never been an elite QB. He’s put up solid numbers but he’s not elite. Brady, Manning,  Brees, and Rodgers are the elite of their era...everyone else is definitely at least a notch below. The problem is that it’s become easier and easier for good and not great players to make the HOF, and it has turned the HOF into a joke

[lancerman]

12 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

How does his career compare to Warren Moon, Dan Fouts, Jim Kelly, and a few of the other weaker HoF QBs? What does he need to do to match them?

Not great. Kelly was a constant top 5 in the 90’s and the first to go to 4 consecutive Super Bowls from a historical perspective. Rivers was occasionally top 5 in an era where there were 4 top dogs who were universally considered the class of the league and he never appeared in a Super Bowl. 

Also Moon played 17 seasons which was incredibly long for the time. Also there’s a historical aspect to him. 

Then Fouts was probably the closest to Rivers was a stats machine especially on yards.

Here’s the deal, the biggest problem with anybody from this era is that Brady/Rodgers/Manning/Brees are  well ahead of the pack, all have rings, and all are going to finish in the top tier of statistical categories all time. Brady/Manning/Brees will be one two and three in bulk stats in some order where any of them can take it. Rodgers and Brady likely retire in the top three in efficiency stats. And Brady has all the playoff stats.  

Ben’s the next best and he pretty much needs his rings to get in. Eli might barely squeak in because of rings. Everyone else is really just too far down in everything. It’s not like there are top tier stats guys who don’t have championships. Since 2001, there were only 4 seasons where Brady, Manning, Rodgers or Brees weren’t in the Super Bowl (2002, 2005, 2008, 2012). 

You get compared to your peers, not guys from decades ago. In the 90’s you had Marino who never won a Super Bowl, Aikman who 3 but wasn’t a stat guy. Then Favre who won one and was a pretty good stat guy. 

Now you have 4 guys who were all top tier stat guys and have rings if not multiple rings 

[Raves]

This isn't a knock against Rivers, he's been a great QB, but in comparison to his peers, he's just behind them.  I mean would you put Matt Stafford into the HOF?  His stats are actually quite close to Rivers.

If you compare them on a per game comparison during their careers:

Rivers - 256.9 ypg, 1.7 TD, .8 Int, 64.2 comp%

Stafford - 278 ypg, 1.7 TD, .9 Int, 62 comp%

If you decide to just swap to their first 9 years as starters, then obviously Stafford stays the same, but Rivers drops to 253.5 ypg, but goes up to 64.7 comp%.

So if you put in Rivers, and Stafford stays on the same pace, you'd be putting in Stafford as well.

Now if you only compare him to the other 2 big QBs from him the 2004 NFL draft class, something that will definitely be used in deciding if he gets in:

Stat comparison of Big Ben, Eli, and Rivers

If you look their stats are quite close but other other two have 2+ Super Bowl rings.  Also look at their playoff stats, his are the worst of the 3.

[MKnight82]

He would need to win a Super Bowl to get consideration IMO.  He has good long term stats, but he was never considered the best at his position at any point in time.  

[game3525]

12 hours ago, showtime said:

They should be a joke, but they're not.  I've always said this - Making pro bowls is very important for a great player's legacy.  Often times those are some of the first accolades people say when they introduce a player.  Pro bowls still mean you are one of the best players at your position to a lot of people.  If someone makes ten pro bowls (like someone was saying Rivers could potentially do) that shows a huge amount of consistency in his play and this is during an era where there have been all-time greats.  I mean, you could argue when it's all said and done that Brady and Manning are two of the top three QB's ever and he played in the same conference as those two his entire career (until Manning retired).  Then you have Big Ben in the AFC as well.  Making it to the pro bowl in the AFC was really difficult.

Exactly.

Every QB who has at least 7 pro-bowl appearances is in the HOF. This is why I said earlier that Rivers punched his ticket in last year. High-level play, consistency, while also being on good terms with the media is what will get him in the long run. 

[Forge]

1 hour ago, Raves said:

This isn't a knock against Rivers, he's been a great QB, but in comparison to his peers, he's just behind them.  I mean would you put Matt Stafford into the HOF?  His stats are actually quite close to Rivers.

If you compare them on a per game comparison during their careers:

Rivers - 256.9 ypg, 1.7 TD, .8 Int, 64.2 comp%

Stafford - 278 ypg, 1.7 TD, .9 Int, 62 comp%

If you decide to just swap to their first 9 years as starters, then obviously Stafford stays the same, but Rivers drops to 253.5 ypg, but goes up to 64.7 comp%.

So if you put in Rivers, and Stafford stays on the same pace, you'd be putting in Stafford as well.

Now if you only compare him to the other 2 big QBs from him the 2004 NFL draft class, something that will definitely be used in deciding if he gets in:

Stat comparison of Big Ben, Eli, and Rivers

If you look their stats are quite close but other other two have 2+ Super Bowl rings.  Also look at their playoff stats, his are the worst of the 3.

This is actually pretty fascinating. Granted, Stafford has a long way to go to get to Rivers as it's no guarantee he continues his level of play for that long. 

[Raves]

31 minutes ago, Forge said:

This is actually pretty fascinating. Granted, Stafford has a long way to go to get to Rivers as it's no guarantee he continues his level of play for that long. 

I think Rivers will eventually get in, though I don't consider him HOF caliber, but it will take him sitting on the list of candidates for awhile.  I mean eventually everyone that was consistently very good makes it into the Hall of Very Good anymore it seems.