CWood21 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 Everyone needs to get back on topic or I'm going to lock this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Anonymous Posted August 18, 2018 Author Share Posted August 18, 2018 Just now, CWood21 said: That's not what I'm asking for. I'm asking for you to support your stance citing something actually tangible. So you've cited an article by Ryan Wood (a Packers' beat writer) which doesn't at all imply that there are three separate but equal decision makers. In an ideal world, all 3 are working in sync but the current structure is meant to be put into place so that no thought process gets drowned out. IF you want a singular structure, you better be willing to live with the downside that certain people won't be listened to. Every GM has their weaknesses. Based almost purely on common sense, Brian Gutenkust will have final say in all personnel manners where as McCarthy has final say in any coaching decisions. Russ Ball is the guy whose working the contracts, and probably doing more of the day-to-day decision making. As for the discussion about Murphy having final say about firing a HC, I think you're missing the fact that most GMs have to run that decision making by the owner on any other franchise. After all, those owners are the ones writing the checks to the HC. Again, if you feel that I'm intentionally misrepresenting you, feel free to run it up the chain. But I can tell you right now, that's clearly not the case. If you have issues with my moderation, feel free to PM myself or Packerraymond. It will be fun to sit back and watch you ask everyone here to cite sources and post links of support every time they share an opinion. Odd thing is, that's exactly what I've done throughout this thread. Yet you're still here calling me out for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 Just now, Mr Anonymous said: It will be fun to sit back and watch you ask everyone here to cite sources and post links of support every time they share an opinion. Odd thing is, that's exactly what I've done throughout this thread. Yet you're still here calling me out for it. You made an opinion, used your source and stood on your opinion. I made my opinion and backed it up with my facts. I don't see the issue here. I see you reading between the lines to get to your conclusion. I choose to take the model that has been used around the league, and use that to support my stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 8 hours ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: Man, I am jealous. Where do you guys get your crystal ball? I mean, I can't see the future like you guys can. I want to go out and get one, cuz with a crystal ball that sees the future, I can get a several million a year job as a GM in the NFL. Seriously though, you have to ask the question why the front office didn't share your view on a player when your player isn't picked. Teams make mistakes, yes, but they also have a lot more information than we as fans do, so one has to wonder what that information was on Edmunds, James, and Alexander that made them go the route they did. Mr Anonymous, I get that you wanted to get in now so that you could discuss this credibly later if things don't work out, and I respect that because so many posters claim special knowledge when in fact it is just 20/20 hindsight. So I respect you putting the opinion out there. But- it is way too early to declare victory. Great post. I also completely understand the one wants to put their opinion down for later. But I don't think many start their own thread to do that, or being so confident and arrogant to know the future of how it will all play out... and that one guy (who's never played a down in the NFL) will be better that two 1st round picks combined). I don't think it's the opinion that bothers people as much as the arrogance of what the future withholds matter in which it's said. I think this would of went much better if there was just a normal post in a draft thread (which I assume is around somewhere), that you think James and/or Edmunds would of better the better route, instead of, trying to declare victory already before any of them has taken a down and hell the 1st round pick hasn't even been used. So it's 100% of one vs 50% of the other. 3 hours ago, Mr Anonymous said: I've seen a few people say I'm ignoring the 1st rounder acquired by the Saints. It's literally mentioned as a part of the equation in the topic title. Yeah but you down play the hell of 1st round as if it's nothing, yet promoting the 3rd and 5th round picks like like they're your secret weapon. Which shows a pretty huge biased in what you hype. You've said the 1st round pick will just fade away... but the 3rd and 5th are important factor that backs your point up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 45 minutes ago, CWood21 said: You made an opinion, used your source and stood on your opinion. I made my opinion and backed it up with my facts. I don't see the issue here. I see you reading between the lines to get to your conclusion. I choose to take the model that has been used around the league, and use that to support my stance. Can you list the facts that you are using Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, squire12 said: Can you list the facts that you are using Find me a SINGLE organization that runs the way that Anonymous implied where there are 3 different people making decisions. Gute is the one making the personnel decisions, McCarthy is making the coaching decisions, and they expanded Russ Ball's duties in order to keep him around. But make no mistake about it, Gute is the one making the personnel decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: Find me a SINGLE organization that runs the way that Anonymous implied where there are 3 different people making decisions. Gute is the one making the personnel decisions, McCarthy is making the coaching decisions, and they expanded Russ Ball's duties in order to keep him around. But make no mistake about it, Gute is the one making the personnel decision. Why am I having to find facts for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, squire12 said: Why am I having to find facts for you? I'm telling you there isn't. You want me to go through every single team? I believe the last team that had a structure in place akin to what Anom has been saying was the Vikings several years ago, and they went away from that and give Rick Spielman pretty much entire control. They've since expanded George Paton's duties to help keep him on board. There isn't a single organization that runs the way that he believes they are. At the end of the day, Gute makes the personnel decision and McCarthy gets the final say in coaching matters. The reason why Murphy is in the position he is is to make sure that there isn't a repeat of before. We've heard multiple times that Ted Thompson didn't really listen to McCarthy's desire to be more active in FA. And by multiple sources. The only reason that Murphy is the mediator is if there is a disagreement, Murphy even said so in his quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Anonymous Posted August 18, 2018 Author Share Posted August 18, 2018 Quote Also because when someone says something way out there, then declares victory causes backlash, then that person whines for mods, the mods (correctly) point out both sides are off track and then whines about the mods. Please point out where I declared victory. A sure sign that people are reaching for straws is when they can't make a case without distorting or completely misrepresenting what the other person said. I stated my opinion at the beginning so as not to be accused of hindsight. That should be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Mr Anonymous said: Please point out where I declared victory. A sure sign that people are reaching for straws is when they can't make a case without distorting or completely misrepresenting what the other person said. I stated my opinion at the beginning so as not to be accused of hindsight. That should be a good thing. Let's all just drop this discussion. Let's stick to the discussion at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 1 hour ago, CWood21 said: Everyone needs to get back on topic or I'm going to lock this thread. But my crystal ball suggest this will become a common problem, when Gute keeps refusing to follow are wise one and we'll continue to see all the problems grow and grow as all the Packers start fighting for power.... why do you think the Packers haven't gotten the Rodgers and Mack deals done yet? Because Ball secretly wants payback because he didn't get the GM job because of MM and Gute! They're FALLING APART MAN!! Don't be a part of the cover-up mmmmaaaannnn (man) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: The reason why Murphy is in the position he is is to make sure that there isn't a repeat of before. We've heard multiple times that Ted Thompson didn't really listen to McCarthy's desire to be more active in FA. And by multiple sources. The only reason that Murphy is the mediator is if there is a disagreement, Murphy even said so in his quote. A repeat of 10+ years of successful football? What was it 8 or 9 consecutive playoffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Let's all just drop this discussion. Let's stick to the discussion at hand. Which discussion is the one at hand exactly? I mean I think the topic thread was covered always from that start. No way to know until a couple of years from now, and two 1st round picks is hard to beat... other than one thinks that's fade away and nothing because they love one or two guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said: Please point out where I declared victory. A sure sign that people are reaching for straws is when they can't make a case without distorting or completely misrepresenting what the other person said. I stated my opinion at the beginning so as not to be accused of hindsight. That should be a good thing. You mean the sure sign that you are complete distorting the reality of these players haven't even played a single game yet you're declaring two as great and two as fade away nothings? ... that's where you're declaring victory and you're completely blind to what you're doing yet whining about what others are doing, yet you're doing it first to them. You start the s*** and then whine when someone hits back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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