2019 prospects and outlook

[doumeyer]

3 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

What young guys? We have no young talent besides Adams and Herndon

I was just going to say the same thing, what young guys ? Both lines offensive & defensive are all season vets, you can say the same thing about the linebackers.

[Dr.O]

Honestly not that they aren’t elite prospects by any degree but I’d be pretty tight if we took Quinenn Williams or Ed Oliver. Shep has done a solid job and we need to allocate resources somewhere other than the Interior DL. OL, Edge, WR needs to be the pick. Honestly wouldn’t be against trading down to Take Dalton Risner later in the 1st, could play anywhere on the interior and possibly even LT.

[Bobby816]

As this stage with how bad our offense is... I don’t care if the next Von Miller, Jalen Ramsey or Aaron Donald are in the board when we pick.

 

WE HAVE TO GO OFFENSE TO CHANGE THIS FRANCHISE!!!

[SDotNova]

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

As this stage with how bad our offense is... I don’t care if the next Von Miller, Jalen Ramsey or Aaron Donald are in the board when we pick.

 

WE HAVE TO GO OFFENSE TO CHANGE THIS FRANCHISE!!!

Tells you how much we've neglected the offensive side of the ball when we don't mind passing on a potential elite edge just so that we can go offense. But that's what it's going to have to come down to. 

I want us to either go LT or WR. I won't be upset if we go edge, but I won't be happy. If we go defense at a position other than edge, I might break my TV. 

 

[Bobby816]

8 hours ago, SDotNova said:

Tells you how much we've neglected the offensive side of the ball when we don't mind passing on a potential elite edge just so that we can go offense. But that's what it's going to have to come down to. 

I want us to either go LT or WR. I won't be upset if we go edge, but I won't be happy. If we go defense at a position other than edge, I might break my TV. 

 

But lets be real. What has Macc shown in even 1st Round defensive players? Watch Leo... He's not a bad player at all. But all I see is a guy slightly above average. When you draft a guy that high (especially when we didn't need him AT ALL) it should be bc he's a superstar i.e. Aaron Donald type talent. Instead we neglected several needs for Leo and all we have is an above average DLineman. Lee was drafted later... but he's the same. Slightly above average. Adams looks like the only one that might be very good to great.

 

Macc's past is scouting and he is bad at it. And it shows by the huge lack of young talent (or really any talent) on this team with 4 whole off seasons under his belt. 4 drafts with 3 of those drafts with very high picks and 2 off seasons with a ton of money in FA. I don't see this franchise changing with him here. That being said he will get to stay I believe and Bowles goes. Meaning this franchise wont be any better for another year or more.

[Rockice_8]

If we don't clean house from top to bottom this offseason we could be trending towards ruining a promising young QB in Sam.  The best thing we have going is that Sam is so young and that the next 2-3 years (if we actually draft right) is what it's going to take to build a foundation for him (he'll only be 23-24 at that time).  I defended Mac for quite sometime because I thought he was doing a decent job and that I liked his approach to BPA and building through the draft.  I thought he landed a stud in Williams and a high upside player in Lee but both have been largely underwhelming.  He has been here for 4 years and has not built the necessary foundation for winning football.  This is not a he only takes defensive players post this is a he just doesn't take the right players post.  We have played in a 34 defense and have not used any resources on the most important positions in a Bowles defense pass rushers and CB's.  Instead we have taken DL, ILB, and SS early arguably the least impactful defensive positions in a 34 D.  Don't get me wrong Adams is a star in the making but at one of the easiest positions to fill outside of RB a hard hitting SS can be easily found in rounds 3-5.

The foundation of good teams start with QB, one elite offensive weapon to build around (could be a WR, RB, or TE), and a good OL.  On defense you need to be able to rush the passer and cover WR's which means at least one elite pass rusher and one elite cover CB and a smart good tackling ILB/SS to QB the defense (no they don't need to be a superstar either).

So what does our foundation look like for the future

QB: Darnold
Offensive Focal Point: ?
OL: Winters (RG), Shell (RT)

Pass Rusher: ?
CB: ?
Defensive QB: Williamson/Adams (I think both fit that role well)

So in 4 years we Mac has added an average RT and Darnold to the key spots and two nice pieces in Adams and Williamson.  As great as Adams is his value takes a hit because of the position he plays.  If you look around the league the diffence between the best offense and the worst offense compared to the best/worst defense shows the greater variation lies between offenses.  There is a much smaller gap between defenses which means if you don't score you don't win.  Lets just say our 11 ppg over the last 5 just won't cut it.  Teams are winning with scoring these days which forces the other teams to become one dimensional passing teams.  Then they pin their ears back and play bend don't break defense looking for a mistake.  Other major reason to dump Mac is I really don't think playing Williams 15M+ is the right thing to do and him being a Mac guy you know that is just a contract waiting to happen.  Hopefully the new GM does things the right way and pays/drafts the right building blocks.

All is not lost while Mac hasn't been great he has found a few really nice complementary pieces for the offense in Herndon and Anderson while securing a really nice QB to build around and found some stability at at least one OL position (Shell).  We really need to start focusing on the key areas to get the foundation in place.  Right now outside of Buffalo I don't see a worse foundation in the NFL and that is all on the GM.  One off season of overspending on above average talent isn't going to move the needle and is no way to build a foundation.  In just one offseason I am already looking ahead to cutting Trumaine Johnson.

Let's hope we do the right thing and clean house and the next GM understands how to build a team.

[jetskid007]

On 11/26/2018 at 7:51 PM, Bobby816 said:

As this stage with how bad our offense is... I don’t care if the next Von Miller, Jalen Ramsey or Aaron Donald are in the board when we pick.

 

WE HAVE TO GO OFFENSE TO CHANGE THIS FRANCHISE!!!

This is arguably the worst take of all takes. 

[Bobby816]

4 minutes ago, jetskid007 said:

This is arguably the worst take of all takes. 

Explain why? How does an edge rusher (really the only position I wouldn’t be beyond pissed if we drafted Round 1) make us a better team? It makes the side of the ball we continuously spend high picks, money in FA better (all while being below average bc they’re on the field the whole game). This team won’t get any better until we make the offense better. Want the defense to be better? Make the offense better so they score and keep the defense off the field. That costs 0 picks and 0 dollars.

[jetskid007]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

Explain why? How does an edge rusher (really the only position I wouldn’t be beyond pissed if we drafted Round 1) make us a better team? It makes the side of the ball we continuously spend high picks, money in FA better (all while being below average bc they’re on the field the whole game). This team won’t get any better until we make the offense better. Want the defense to be better? Make the offense better so they score and keep the defense off the field. That costs 0 picks and 0 dollars.

You should never pass on elite talent for the sake of need unless it is the QB. Look at some of the best offenses in the NFL - they're not all built with skill players and offensive lineman drafted in the top 5. The Saints are the best example of this. 

If it's close yeah go with the offensive guy, but I don't see ANY offensive player worth a top 5 pick in the class. I'm weary of Jonah Williams, and I don't see a slam dunk skill player worth a top 10 pick. If we're drafting in the top 4, you trade down or take the BPA, which will likely be a defender.

[Bobby816]

8 minutes ago, jetskid007 said:

You should never pass on elite talent for the sake of need unless it is the QB. Look at some of the best offenses in the NFL - they're not all built with skill players and offensive lineman drafted in the top 5. The Saints are the best example of this. 

If it's close yeah go with the offensive guy, but I don't see ANY offensive player worth a top 5 pick in the class. I'm weary of Jonah Williams, and I don't see a slam dunk skill player worth a top 10 pick. If we're drafting in the top 4, you trade down or take the BPA, which will likely be a defender.

I get your point. But the teams that succeed with less offensive talent are bc they have GREAT QBs. We are a franchise that’s starving for a franchise QB. We can’t afford to not have Darnold work quite frankly. Therefor we should do everything we can to make him succeed. And I don’t see how a top 10 draft pick Edge rusher helps him become a franchise QB. A LT or WR on the other hand can.

[jetskid007]

5 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I get your point. But the teams that succeed bc with less offensive talent are bc they have GREAT QBs. We are a franchise that’s starving for a franchise QB. We can’t afford to not have Darnold work quite frankly. Therefor we should do everything we can to make him succeed. And I don’t see how a top 10 draft pick Edge rusher helps him become a franchise QB. A LT or WR on the other hand can.

You're correct: the Jets need to focus on two things: (1) finding a coach/scheme who can get the most out of Darnold; and (2) surrounding him with offensive talent. Doesn't necessarily means it will happen overnight, and doesn't necessarily mean you have to reach in round 1 for a OL/WR/RB/TE. They have $100M+ to spend on guys who could help Darnold improve. Ideally there would be a bonafide top 5 talent on offense available, but it's not looking like that will be the case. Still, doesn't mean you can't build a good offense in the short-term. 

How did the Rams build their offense after Goff's atrocious rookie year? Scheme and veteran talent. Sure they had Gurley, but the scheme opens up more for Gurley than he does for the scheme. He was with Goff his rookie year and they both did nothing due to poor coaching and a lack of an offensive line. The Bears are another team making tremendous strides on offense, and Trubisky is their only offensive player that was a 1st round pick (Long has been out). 

The last thing you want to do is pass on an elite EDGE rusher for a LT/WR, then watch 3-5 years later your LT/WR are slightly above average whereas that edge is a total superstar. Gotta go with the higher graded player in that scenario... 

[Bobby816]

16 minutes ago, jetskid007 said:

You're correct: the Jets need to focus on two things: (1) finding a coach/scheme who can get the most out of Darnold; and (2) surrounding him with offensive talent. Doesn't necessarily means it will happen overnight, and doesn't necessarily mean you have to reach in round 1 for a OL/WR/RB/TE. They have $100M+ to spend on guys who could help Darnold improve. Ideally there would be a bonafide top 5 talent on offense available, but it's not looking like that will be the case. Still, doesn't mean you can't build a good offense in the short-term. 

How did the Rams build their offense after Goff's atrocious rookie year? Scheme and veteran talent. Sure they had Gurley, but the scheme opens up more for Gurley than he does for the scheme. He was with Goff his rookie year and they both did nothing due to poor coaching and a lack of an offensive line. The Bears are another team making tremendous strides on offense, and Trubisky is their only offensive player that was a 1st round pick (Long has been out). 

The last thing you want to do is pass on an elite EDGE rusher for a LT/WR, then watch 3-5 years later your LT/WR are slightly above average whereas that edge is a total superstar. Gotta go with the higher graded player in that scenario... 

I guess our definition of Elite is different. Bc I don’t see any can’t miss guys in this draft. So if we are taking a risk (obviously the higher you draft the less the risk generally) I’d rather it be on offense. Bosa probably won’t be there (and he has some questions). So who are we looking at after that Ferrell, Sweat, Allen? All are risks. Just as big of a risk of that of Williams, Harry, Brown, Metcalf, etc. Bosa might be the only guy I’d say ok let’s draft him to. Anyone else I want the offensive guy!!!

[SDotNova]

Watched a lot of interviews of the top coaching candidates.

My new favorite guy is Pete Carmichael. He seems ready to lead in multiple aspects. Seems knowledgeable on the draft. Just seems like a guy who can be a successful HC in all phases of the job. He kind of reminds me of a slightly (barely) more energetic Mangini. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by SDotNova

[Bobby816]

30 minutes ago, SDotNova said:

Watched a lot of interviews of the top coaching candidates.

My new favorite guy is Pete Carmichael. He seems ready to lead in multiple aspects. Seems knowledgeable on the draft. Just seems like a guy who can be a successful HC in all phases of the job. He kind of reminds me of a slightly (barely) more energetic Mangini. 

Definitely a name I like. Surely he’s been soaking up info from Payton these last 10years or so. The risk with him is... how good is the scheme when you take out Brees. A risk I’d be willing to take. But a risk none the less.

[KingOfNewYork]

4 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I get your point. But the teams that succeed with less offensive talent are bc they have GREAT QBs. We are a franchise that’s starving for a franchise QB. We can’t afford to not have Darnold work quite frankly. Therefor we should do everything we can to make him succeed. And I don’t see how a top 10 draft pick Edge rusher helps him become a franchise QB. A LT or WR on the other hand can.

So Kolton Miller over Derwin James for example?

until some offensive prospects stand out and show Elite potential my top 3 are Bosa, Oliver and Williams.