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who looked better as rookies R/R or J/J


James Lofton

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I remember in 2015 how great Damarius Randall and Quentin Rollins looked their rookie years. In the preseason, Rollins was snagging interceptions left and right. And Randall seemed to have the speed and a knack for making a big play.

Well, I've learned my lesson. Even though Jaire and Josh look good so far, I'm not going to hold my breath.

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For me the biggest difference is experience and NFL readiness. Randall and Rollins, for all their potential and rookie season excitement, were both still relatively new to the position. Whereas Josh and Jaire were both EXCELLENT college corners who seem capable of stepping right into NFL competition.

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Just now, Lodestar said:

For me the biggest difference is experience and NFL readiness. Randall and Rollins, for all their potential and rookie season excitement, were both still relatively new to the position. Whereas Josh and Jaire were both EXCELLENT college corners who seem capable of stepping right into NFL competition.

Yep, Rollins and Randall were both high risk, high reward players.  I still believe Randall could have been (and might become) an all-pro player in the secondary.  His knack for huge plays at huge times was really underrated here, and I think he's going to the pro bowl with the Browns this year.  He just couldn't do what we wanted him to.  Alexander and Jackson are both fully capable of doing exactly what we're going to expect them to do. 

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11 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Yep, Rollins and Randall were both high risk, high reward players.  I still believe Randall could have been (and might become) an all-pro player in the secondary.  His knack for huge plays at huge times was really underrated here, and I think he's going to the pro bowl with the Browns this year.  He just couldn't do what we wanted him to.  Alexander and Jackson are both fully capable of doing exactly what we're going to expect them to do. 

I agree, Randall was always a better safety prospect with his range. His biggest issue will be his maturity (x2 w/ that locker room). If he gets that figured out I wouldn't be surprised to see him be a perennial Pro Bowler.

I think I am just as hyped for Josh and Jaire, as I was for Randall and Rollins. They all have looked really good early on in their careers. Josh has impressed me with how much his man to man coverage has improved.   Always good when the improvement hits that fast in development.

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57 minutes ago, James Lofton said:

I remember in 2015 how great Damarius Randall and Quentin Rollins looked their rookie years. In the preseason, Rollins was snagging interceptions left and right. And Randall seemed to have the speed and a knack for making a big play.

Well, I've learned my lesson. Even though Jaire and Josh look good so far, I'm not going to hold my breath.

I haven't seen much film of the new guys yet. I suspect what helped Randall and Rollins in 2015 was that they were likely given fewer responsibilities on the field. Both Shields and Hayward were there to take more of the burden vs. better wr's. There was also alot of experience at safety w/ HHCD, Burnett, and Hyde. After the roster turnover, those 2 were put in more prominent roles that they didn't live up to. 

Alexander & Jackson probably have similar advantages this year with King and TWill above them, though the safety position is probably weaker now than it was then. So it's entirely possible they could look ok in lesser roles while they develop for future seasons. And how they look in future seasons could be dependent on how the rest of the roster shapes up and what happens with Twill, King, etc. as much as it does on their own development.

I'd also add that just by blindly playing the odds, we shouldn't be surprised if at least 1 of the 2 fails to live up to expectations. Based off the typical NFL success rates I've seen in studies, a mid-1st-rnd DB pick stands a 64% chance of hitting, and a mid-2nd DB has 46% chance. So only 29% chance both hit (and 19% chance both fail). And all this while keeping in mind that the "hit" criteria for the study giving these percentages was simply a player being a starter for the majority of the games he played in his career. There have been guys (lance kendricks, letroy guion, marshall newhouse, a.j. hawk, etc) that would fit that "hit" criteria that many on this board would probably not think of as "hits" and would look at as a disappointment if the investment was a 1st/2nd round pick. Randall would even quality as a "hit" with that lenient criteria, so that should give you a clue on how low the %'s are of true "hit"s, even in the early rounds.

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9 minutes ago, KingOfTheNorth said:

I think I am just as hyped for Josh and Jaire, as I was for Randall and Rollins. They all have looked really good early on in their careers. Josh has impressed me with how much his man to man coverage has improved.   Always good when the improvement hits that fast in development.

Through two preseason games, I am more hyped about Jackson than any Packers rookie in recent memory. He seems so confident and capable out there. I would have said this even before the pick-6... so when that happened, I was like "Oh my god, this kid is going to be special."

Desperately tries to temper expectations

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I'm super excited for the pair. Jackson was a 1st rounder for a very long time before falling because of the combine (stupid, stupid, stupid) so, the way I see it is, we got 2 first round caliber corners AND picked up an additional 1st for 2019 (EDGE rusher). It's a thing of beauty.

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Josh and Jaire have a huge advantage of better coaching. For whatever reason, Capers seem to lack the ability to develop players in the secondary. Be curious to see how randall and Rollins do going forward.

 

Coming out, both Josh and Jaire are better players. We were lucky that there were a bunch of 2nd tier CBs and teams were willing to wait later to nab one. Never thought Josh would make it to the 2nd round, we got a gift from the league on that one.

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2 minutes ago, VegasDan said:

Josh and Jaire have a huge advantage of better coaching. For whatever reason, Capers seem to lack the ability to develop players in the secondary.

Joe Whitt is the DB coach now and was the DB coach in the past too -  and he's one of the best in the business

Sorry, no sale.

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6 hours ago, TransientTexan said:

I haven't seen much film of the new guys yet. I suspect what helped Randall and Rollins in 2015 was that they were likely given fewer responsibilities on the field. Both Shields and Hayward were there to take more of the burden vs. better wr's. There was also alot of experience at safety w/ HHCD, Burnett, and Hyde. After the roster turnover, those 2 were put in more prominent roles that they didn't live up to. 

I disagree.  I think the answer is a bit more clear.  Rollins played one year of college football after transitioning from basketball and Damarious Randall transitioned from a college safety to corner.  We're talking about one of the hardest (if not the hardest) positions to play in the NFL.  Instincts and reps are incredibly important for that position, and they had one combined season at that position before they were drafted.

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15 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I disagree.  I think the answer is a bit more clear.  Rollins played one year of college football after transitioning from basketball and Damarious Randall transitioned from a college safety to corner.  We're talking about one of the hardest (if not the hardest) positions to play in the NFL.  Instincts and reps are incredibly important for that position, and they had one combined season at that position before they were drafted.

I don't think the factors are mutually exclusive. Both probably played roles in the eventual struggles. But the factors you mentioned don't really address why Randall and Rollins did perform decently in their rookie years before dropping off in yr 2/3. The factors I mentioned were meant to address that aspect of the OP's post. 

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2 minutes ago, TransientTexan said:

I don't think the factors are mutually exclusive. Both probably played roles in the eventual struggles. But the factors you mentioned don't really address why Randall and Rollins did perform decently in their rookie years before dropping off in yr 2/3. The factors I mentioned were meant to address that aspect of the OP's post. 

I guess I shouldn't have mentioned that I thought those were the only reason.  I don't recall ever thinking that Rollins was playing the part of a good corner.  Honestly, I think I always had hoped he would turn out to be like Hayward.  Hayward struggled as a boundary corner, but really took off in the slot.  Randall had the issues between the ears.  And when he wasn't there mentally, his play showed it.  We saw glimpses as a rookie, but the consistency wasn't there.  And then he was dealing with the bum groin and was essentially playing on one leg as a sophomore.  And then last year there was the benching.  Just didn't have the right mindset IMO.

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