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OrangeNBlue86

2019 draft/QB position league wide

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2 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

Where is this 'OAK is in the QB market' narrative coming from? And if it's true, why aren't we talking more about Derek Carr in orange and blue?

I don't want him at that contract price. I think hes a solid qb not a world beater hes paid to be.

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6 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

Where is this 'OAK is in the QB market' narrative coming from? And if it's true, why aren't we talking more about Derek Carr in orange and blue?

I don't buy into it, but the notion isn't a ridiculous one.

Carr carries a cap hit next year of $22.5 million, but the dead cap to release him is just $7.5 mill. So, if the Raiders were to draft a QB high in the draft then they could draft him and still have circa $5 mill more in cap room after cutting Carr than they would be just keeping Carr. 

I think most of the noise is due to the fact Gruden seems to be slating Carr every chance he gets, but let's be honest here - Carr is getting paid like a top QB but isn't playing like one.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, lomaxgrUK said:

but let's be honest here - Carr is getting paid like a top QB but isn't playing like one.

 

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

I don't want him at that contract price. I think hes a solid qb not a world beater hes paid to be.

But with what we're paying Keenum and what Cousins demanded as a FA this offseason - Carr's $22.5m seems awfully reasonable, especially considering he's 27 years old. 

In my mind, he's still in the top 10 of 'QBs you'd like to have for the next 10 years' and that's more than you can say about Keenum, Kelly, or a 2019 Stopgap FA signing. Plus, having Carr prevents your team from using a premium 1st round pick on a QB who *might*  end up being as good as Carr. 

If we have a shot at Carr at any point in the next 24months  I'd hope Elway does what he can to get him. 

Edited by bMiller031

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15 hours ago, bMiller031 said:

 

But with what we're paying Keenum and what Cousins demanded as a FA this offseason - Carr's $22.5m seems awfully reasonable, especially considering he's 27 years old. 

In my mind, he's still in the top 10 of 'QBs you'd like to have for the next 10 years' and that's more than you can say about Keenum, Kelly, or a 2019 Stopgap FA signing. Plus, having Carr prevents your team from using a premium 1st round pick on a QB who *might*  end up being as good as Carr. 

If we have a shot at Carr at any point in the next 24months  I'd hope Elway does what he can to get him. 

Firstly, the Raiders aren't going to trade him to us so even talking about Carr's current contract on our books seems pointless. If we were to acquire him, it would be after the Raiders cut him.

He's had enough games against us for Elway to be interested if he's a free agent, no doubt. I guess if Gruden was to cut him then he'd likely fancy getting some revenge twice a year too (hope it works out better than it did for Marquette King ...)

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2 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

He's had enough games against us for Elway to be interested if he's a free agent, no doubt. I guess if Gruden was to cut him then he'd likely fancy getting some revenge twice a year too (hope it works out better than it did for Marquette King ...)

If the Raiders cut Carr then I think a lot of teams would be offering him a lot of money - and I suspect that money would trump revenge.

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4 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

If the Raiders cut Carr then I think a lot of teams would be offering him a lot of money - and I suspect that money would trump revenge.

Fair comment.

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Carr would never be cut outright. Traded, outside the AFC maybe. Who the heck knows anymore with the Gruden. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Carr would never be cut outright. Traded, outside the AFC maybe. Who the heck knows anymore with the Gruden. 

Let's face it, none of us, Raider fans, or even the FO probably knows.   It's his show all the way.

Logic dictates a trade never happens in-division.   So I wouldn't count on it.  I just wouldn't discount it completely, either (although to be fair, while the Mack trade was a bad one especially given they are sending back a 2020 2nd for that 2020 1st, which right now really devalues the net worth, part of the decision undoubtedly came from sending him to the NFC).

Back to the QB question - as crazy as it sounds....WAS might be really regretting that QB decision now enough to think Rd1 QB.   Alex Smith has looked, well, like Alex Smith - except without Andy Reid's genius and player development skills behind him (and to be clear, Reid is amazing in pre-game preparation and player development, that's where he makes his $$ - what limits him is his curious get-cute play calling in-game and total lack of adjustment/terrible clock management in key games - why they can't win the big games vs. better teams in the past - maybe Mahomes' talent will overcome that now for him).    They don't get cap relief until after 2020, but he's also 34, and looking like he's only going to get a LOT worse in his next 2 years - I would not discount Dan Snyder going to the QB well and just eating Smith's salary as one of the highest paid backups in 2019-20 (bridge QB in 2019, backup by 2020 - let's face it, WAS has thrown $ at problems b4 and eaten dead money when it fails). 

As awful as Keenum's 36M/2 was, I'm given a little solace that it could be worse...I could be a Skins fan watching them put all the blame on Cousins when their OL fell apart and they had zero supporting cast, disparage him in the media as greedy when he offered them a 72M/4 year deal 3 years ago, then WAS decided to bet against him (and failed x 2), and let him walk.  And then threw 71M guaranteed at Alex freaking Smith.  A proven "winner"...who was again a product of the coach/team around him..and not the guy who was the tractor on that O, but the trailer.  Every person who kept insisting that Alex Smith was an upgrade on Kirk Cousins in the offseason should be feeling pretty sheepish now (and frankly, nobody is perfect, we all make bad calls - but that was so painfully obvious it was staggering that ppl had this take).

Edited by Broncofan

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Elway and some Bronco reps at the Oregon/Washington game today to get a look at Herbert.

Herbert is a heck of a talent, no doubt, but guys from offenses like that scare the hell out of me.  Physically you can’t ask for much more, though.

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^^^ To go along with the above post.  There is just so much more that goes into being a QB at the NFL level.  Physical talent is great, but the mental side/competitiveness has to be there as well and is probably more important.  Herbert was dictated by his sideline all game.  Come to the line, clap his hands, then look to the sideline for directions on the play.

As physically talented as he is, if he can’t dissect a defense himself those qualities are meaningless, which Bronco fans know as well as anyone after Paxton Lynch.

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5 hours ago, germ-x said:

Elway and some Bronco reps at the Oregon/Washington game today to get a look at Herbert.

Herbert is a heck of a talent, no doubt, but guys from offenses like that scare the hell out of me.  Physically you can’t ask for much more, though.

To be fair that’s what OKL does too.  And I had major concerns with Mayfield because of that.   I do want to know how well he diagnoses D formations and how quickly he gets through read progression.  Interviews and watching him break down tape will be huge for him.    

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I personally have no concerns about the offenses these guys come from anymore and believe NFL teams are feeling the same way. It won't be long before football at all levels looks roughly the same. I never thought I'd see Mike Leach's imprint on the NFL but it's there and it's probably only going to be more present going forward. The cerebral traits still shine through. With Mayfield, the accuracy, ball placement and overall feel for the game were apparent. With Lynch, the lack of accuracy and touch was always apparent. All of these guys are going to be productive with how much space there is to take advantage of on college fields, but it's not like there's no way to see NFL qualities. 

I think the next coach needs to be a forward-thinking offensive mind to pair with a young QB. The QBs who have been paired with those kinds of coaches recently have developed well. 

Edited by BroncoBruin

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2 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

I personally have no concerns about the offenses these guys come from anymore and believe NFL teams are feeling the same way. It won't be long before football at all levels looks roughly the same. I never thought I'd see Mike Leach's imprint on the NFL but it's there and it's probably only going to be more present going forward. The cerebral traits still shine through. With Mayfield, the accuracy, ball placement and overall feel for the game were apparent. With Lynch, the lack of accuracy and touch was always apparent. All of these guys are going to be productive with how much space there is to take advantage of on college fields, but it's not like there's no way to see NFL qualities. 

I think the next coach needs to be a forward-thinking offensive mind to pair with a young QB. The QBs who have been paired with those kinds of coaches recently have developed well. 

I think the college game and pro game are changing enough line reads in college are just not going to be there as a preset skill. It’s still something we will need to see college guys demonstrate aptitude in.   But yeah I don’t think we can ding them as much for spread style college O’s that don’t force line reads.  

We will need to assess the aptitude to learn / diagnose for these QB’s, which is why the interviews and Senior Bowl week / Combine interviews will be crucial.  

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