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OrangeNBlue86

2019 draft/QB position league wide

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11 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

I personally have no concerns about the offenses these guys come from anymore and believe NFL teams are feeling the same way. It won't be long before football at all levels looks roughly the same. I never thought I'd see Mike Leach's imprint on the NFL but it's there and it's probably only going to be more present going forward. The cerebral traits still shine through. With Mayfield, the accuracy, ball placement and overall feel for the game were apparent. With Lynch, the lack of accuracy and touch was always apparent. All of these guys are going to be productive with how much space there is to take advantage of on college fields, but it's not like there's no way to see NFL qualities. 

I think the next coach needs to be a forward-thinking offensive mind to pair with a young QB. The QBs who have been paired with those kinds of coaches recently have developed well. 

I agree to an extent.  Almost every NCAA team is running the spread now.  However, it makes it so much more difficult to understand how a QB is processing information.

I keep hearing about Mayfield as if he’s a success story for it, but he hasn’t exactly been successful this year.  I watched his entire game today and unless his 1st read was open he was completely lost and at the NFL level you don’t have the same amount of time to improvise.  He may end up being great, he’s a rookie and is going to have ups and downs, but there isn’t anything I saw today that made me think Baker Mayfield is going to be a franchise QB.

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1 hour ago, germ-x said:

I agree to an extent.  Almost every NCAA team is running the spread now.  However, it makes it so much more difficult to understand how a QB is processing information.

I keep hearing about Mayfield as if he’s a success story for it, but he hasn’t exactly been successful this year.  I watched his entire game today and unless his 1st read was open he was completely lost and at the NFL level you don’t have the same amount of time to improvise.  He may end up being great, he’s a rookie and is going to have ups and downs, but there isn’t anything I saw today that made me think Baker Mayfield is going to be a franchise QB.

Yeah, to be clear - I still would have had Mayfield #3 behind Darnold & Rosen.  That's not different - but I do think he's probably at worst going to be league-average.   

It's just that the O's are basically masking the ability for QB's to diagnose and adjust in college - so we have to rely more on the interviews/Senior Bowl type work to get a better idea on what they can do.   I think the expectation that we can tell from QB's in pro-style O's is just the exception and not the norm.

I do think Mayfield's interviews (despite his sideshow stuff) probably played up in the evaluation.   I think we'll need to see more of that with college guys each year (show us how football-smart you are - in that respect, Winston's interviews were eye-opening how football-smart he was, and why he was taken 1.1 even with all the baggage).

Edited by Broncofan

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Keenum misses DT on 2nd down, but at least he converted 3rd down.  But that DT play he's wide open, and Keenum can't get it there.   So discouraging.

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And...Keenum make a late read....and a bad throw.  And it's ANOTHER pick.  SMH.

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19 hours ago, Broncofan said:

And...Keenum make a late read....and a bad throw.  And it's ANOTHER pick.  SMH.

He throws picks in the most inappropriate times...in the redzone...if hadn't thrown that pick yesterday...Broncos could have lived with a FG...considering they lost by just three.

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3 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

He throws picks in the most inappropriate times...in the redzone...if hadn't thrown that pick yesterday...Broncos could have lived with a FG...considering they lost by just three.

Well game flow would have changed - LAR basically played for the FG that last drive, knowing they were up 7 pts.    Up 4 they would have been more aggressive for the TD.  But either way, a killer.

And...I realized I posted this in the Draft Position thread instead of the GD thread.  Man, too tired yesterday lol.

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Haskins has been intriguing to me as well. He’s raw, boom/bust type in that offense.

I’d be stunned to see an Urban Meyer offense throw the ball 50x in a game...Haskins threw it 73x tonight.  They were losing and he’s everything they have offensively, but that’s insane.

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1 hour ago, germ-x said:

Haskins has been intriguing to me as well. He’s raw, boom/bust type in that offense.

I’d be stunned to see an Urban Meyer offense throw the ball 50x in a game...Haskins threw it 73x tonight.  They were losing and he’s everything they have offensively, but that’s insane.

For all the tools he looked incredibly raw and lacking in the advanced between-the-ears skills (anticipation, eyes up with pressure, quick read progression and D recognition).   Which isn’t that surprising given his lack of experience.   But also why he’s an easy pass in Rd1 if he declares.   Frankly he’d be better off staying in school another year.   The other troubling part was his lack of placement and feel.   Tools are there but man they’re a ton of work to do.   For 2019 Rd1 no thank you. 

The entire QB draft class has taken a collective dump this month.   For there to be no clear cut top guy after Herbert (who himself struggled) shows how thin this class is at the top.   The likelihood of a reach pick in Rd1 is sky high.  Ugh. 

Edited by Broncofan

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Got curious about the QB position relative to Elway's drafting and I figure some of you could use this ammo for the haters - 

2012 - Luck, Griffin, Tannehill, Weeden all go before the Broncos 1st pick at 25. Broncos select Osweiler in the 2nd, and subsequently miss out on Wilson, Foles, Cousins 

2013 - No QB in this draft class ever did anything noteworthy, Manning is playing well still

2014 - Bortles, Manziel get drafted ahead of Broncos 1st pick at 31. Broncos select Bradley Roby and subsequently miss out on Bridgewater, Carr, Jimmy G

2015 - Winston, Mariota get drafted ahead of Broncos 1st pick at 23. No notable QBs selected after.

2016 - Goff and Wentz go 1/2. We are coming off of a SB victory, and Manning is retiring. Elway trades up to select Paxton Lynch , a complete waste of a 1st rounder. Dak is drafted late 4th round, although I am not sure he is a good QB he is worth mentioning.

2017 - Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson all drafted well before the Broncos 20th pick. Should we have traded up to select Mahomes / Watson? Probably - this looks like our biggest miss, but it never would have happened due to Lynch being R1 2016.

2018 - We choose Chubb over Rosen. Jury is still out, we need a QB.

To recap - we missed Wilson, Foles, Cousins in 2012 because we took Brock before them. We missed Teddy, Carr, Jimmy G in 2014 because we drafted Roby. It likely would have taken 2 1sts to trade up for Mahomes / Watson. And we missed Rosen.

I really don't think that is as bad as people think, seeing as we have not been in position to draft elite QB talent with the exception of the 2018 draft. For some reason the whole Elway / QB thing was bothering me so I had to look into it - hope they will stop citing failed 7th round picks as failures because they really aren't of any significance. 

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5 minutes ago, Royal_VT said:

I really don't think that is as bad as people think, seeing as we have not been in position to draft elite QB talent with the exception of the 2018 draft. For some reason the whole Elway / QB thing was bothering me so I had to look into it - hope they will stop citing failed 7th round picks as failures because they really aren't of any significance. 

Except Paxton may have been the worst 1st round QB this century - which rings louder than anything else.

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9 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

Except Paxton may have been the worst 1st round QB this century - which rings louder than anything else.

There is also the opportunity cost of investing in both Osweiler and Lynch. A combined 6 years wasted on guys that should have been judged as not being capable within the first year in the organization. I'm more upset about the Osweiler investment, honestly. You had the opportunity to have a QB train behind Manning and you gave that opportunity to Brock Osweiler. 

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1 hour ago, champ11 said:

There is also the opportunity cost of investing in both Osweiler and Lynch. A combined 6 years wasted on guys that should have been judged as not being capable within the first year in the organization. I'm more upset about the Osweiler investment, honestly. You had the opportunity to have a QB train behind Manning and you gave that opportunity to Brock Osweiler. 

Yeah that’s the flip side.  You need a QB but make the wrong call where to invest you pass on other guys for 2-3 years.   

The last one just really hurts because we passed for Case freaking Keenum.   At 18M a year.   And that’s after didging the 18M a year bullet in extending Brock.    When you add those 2 decisions to @Royal_VT‘s summary it indeed looks awful.   There’s no sugar coating it Elway & Kubiak stink at QB development and evaluation.   It’s why getting “projects” (almost every 2019 draft top end QB) or guys who need to get fixed (Carr) comes with a lot of trepidation. 

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12 hours ago, champ11 said:

You had the opportunity to have a QB train behind Manning and you gave that opportunity to Brock Osweiler. 

I know you didn't mean this literally, but a lot of the time I think it's a myth that a great QB is a good person to sit behind. How many good QB's have actually risen out of a situation like that? 

Rodgers behind Favre - as far as I am aware, Rodgers has never ever gone out of his way to praise what Brett did for him. The latter got injured and the former took his chance because of his raw talent.

Jimmy G behind Brady - again, all reports out of NE suggest that Brady resented the Patriots for having selected Jimmy G. They were far from best buds from all accounts.

I really can't think of anyone else. Manning was notorious for hogging practice reps, spending all his time in film for the benefit of his own performance rather than assisting any backup, and no backup of Manning's has ever amounted to anything in the NFL.

If anything, I would say it is more beneficial for a young QB to sit behind a top professional that knows he is a place holder. Alex Smith did wonders for Mahomes as per every word out of KC. I've read that Case was great in that role for Jared Goff too.

When you look at the teams who have an enviable QB situation right now, just look at where the QB's were selected:

Tom Brady, 6th round. Will never happen again.
Drew Brees, 2nd round.
Kirk Cousins, 4th round.
Aaron Rodgers, #24 overall.
Patrick Mahomes, #10 overall.
Jared Goff, #1 overall.
Carson Wentz, #2 overall.
Deshaun Watson, #12 overall.
Andrew Luck, #1 overall.
Matt Ryan, #2 overall.
Cam Newton, #1 overall.
Ben Roethlisberger, #11 overall.
Joe Flacco, #18 overall.

And that doesn't include the 2018 draft which featured 4 top 10 QBs. My point is, the percentages point towards having to have an early pick in the 1st round to get a QB that is befitting of a top notch NFL QB. This is why many were a proponent of going after a QB at #5 when we had the chance to select 1 of 2 guys who, in my peoples eyes, were worthy of the selection.

The rather hilariously ironic thing about all of this is that the better we make our team elsewhere, the harder it is to get a QB of this ilk. 

Edited by lomaxgrUK

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