AnAngryAmerican Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 Jackson shouldn’t be a polarizing player, I don’t understand why he is. This thread being a prime example; someone points out questions about his game and people act like their dog was just kicked. Jackson has a never before seen skill set, he would 1000000% get my MVP vote this year. But his style of play is unsustainable. I’m old enough to remember the early 2000s when people said Vick would change the game forever. During his prime, he was right there every year in the MVP balloting and arguments could be made that should have won at least one given when meant to Atlanta. And what happened? Vick was slowing down even before he was rightfully prisoned and disgraced for being a POS of a human being. Can Jackson buck the trend? I suppose it’s possible. And, as a football fan, I am going to LOVE watching him try. But I will most certainly not bet on this iteration lasting more than a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 3 hours ago, champ11 said: how many MVPs did Cunningham win? None, but I'm not sure how relevant that is. He was a pro bowler three consecutive years, the first real successful running QB, about 100 carries per season. Got hurt on a running play in 91, missed a year and was never the same again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 52 minutes ago, AKRNA said: None, but I'm not sure how relevant that is. He was a pro bowler three consecutive years, the first real successful running QB, about 100 carries per season. Got hurt on a running play in 91, missed a year and was never the same again. An injury can happen to anyone, but the more you run the ball at QB the higher the likelihood regardless of previous injury history. The fact of the matter is, Jackson isn’t a good passer. All the running and stuff means nothing until he can be a legitimate threat from the pocket. All the in season stuff is fine and dandy, but the playoffs are a completely different animal. The sense of urgency is up, you don’t have players coasting, coaches/players are giving 100% full effort and pulling out all the stops. In that scenario you saw John Harbaugh (who will probably be a HOF coach) and Lamar Jackson (young player, who can/will improve) completely unravel. Jackson, even in garbage time, was absolutely clueless in the pocket. They aren’t a team built to play from behind because Jackson can’t throw the football with any type of consistency or timing within the offense. When they have a lead, sure, but when forced to throw the football they’re in major trouble and the biggest part of that is (as of right now at least) they don’t have a QB with the passing ability to play from behind. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7DnBrnc53 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 14 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said: Jackson shouldn’t be a polarizing player, I don’t understand why he is. This thread being a prime example; someone points out questions about his game and people act like their dog was just kicked. Jackson has a never before seen skill set, he would 1000000% get my MVP vote this year. But his style of play is unsustainable. I’m old enough to remember the early 2000s when people said Vick would change the game forever. During his prime, he was right there every year in the MVP balloting and arguments could be made that should have won at least one given when meant to Atlanta. And what happened? Vick was slowing down even before he was rightfully prisoned and disgraced for being a POS of a human being. Can Jackson buck the trend? I suppose it’s possible. And, as a football fan, I am going to LOVE watching him try. But I will most certainly not bet on this iteration lasting more than a few years. Agreed. He is Kordell Stewart 2.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 15 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said: Jackson shouldn’t be a polarizing player, I don’t understand why he is. This thread being a prime example; someone points out questions about his game and people act like their dog was just kicked. Jackson has a never before seen skill set, he would 1000000% get my MVP vote this year. But his style of play is unsustainable. I’m old enough to remember the early 2000s when people said Vick would change the game forever. During his prime, he was right there every year in the MVP balloting and arguments could be made that should have won at least one given when meant to Atlanta. And what happened? Vick was slowing down even before he was rightfully prisoned and disgraced for being a POS of a human being. Can Jackson buck the trend? I suppose it’s possible. And, as a football fan, I am going to LOVE watching him try. But I will most certainly not bet on this iteration lasting more than a few years. Because people say crap like "randall cunningham" and "kordell stewart" and "the 22 year old MVP is going to have a 3 or 4 year career" and "mentally weak" and just perpetuate these BS stereotypes. He had a bad couple playoff games (like many have had) and it's not a referendum on his career. I feel like it shouldn't be a surprise why he's polarizing. You just saw why before I could even reply! But it's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos_fan _from _uk Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 11 hours ago, germ-x said: An injury can happen to anyone, but the more you run the ball at QB the higher the likelihood regardless of previous injury history. The fact of the matter is, Jackson isn’t a good passer. All the running and stuff means nothing until he can be a legitimate threat from the pocket. All the in season stuff is fine and dandy, but the playoffs are a completely different animal. The sense of urgency is up, you don’t have players coasting, coaches/players are giving 100% full effort and pulling out all the stops. In that scenario you saw John Harbaugh (who will probably be a HOF coach) and Lamar Jackson (young player, who can/will improve) completely unravel. Jackson, even in garbage time, was absolutely clueless in the pocket. They aren’t a team built to play from behind because Jackson can’t throw the football with any type of consistency or timing within the offense. When they have a lead, sure, but when forced to throw the football they’re in major trouble and the biggest part of that is (as of right now at least) they don’t have a QB with the passing ability to play from behind. I agree with the general sentiment here. Jackson is fun to watch, but it’s not the style of football that has ever won championships. Additionally it leads to a shorter shelf life. Maybe he can pull a Steve young and become a much improved passer from the pocket. If he does he’s a HOFer. Of course it took Steve years on the bench to get there, while Jackson is taking almost 200 hits a season (rush attempts plus sacks plus knockdowns). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 39 minutes ago, champ11 said: Because people say crap like "randall cunningham" and "kordell stewart" and "the 22 year old MVP is going to have a 3 or 4 year career" and "mentally weak" and just perpetuate these BS stereotypes. He had a bad couple playoff games (like many have had) and it's not a referendum on his career. I feel like it shouldn't be a surprise why he's polarizing. You just saw why before I could even reply! But it's all good. Jackson deserves the MVP and I have absolutely no issue with him receiving it, but IMO and this won’t happen because he’s an RB, but the MVP should go to Derrick Henry. He’s completely carried Tennessee all year and now through the playoffs where he’s torched the #1 defense in football, and then the Ravens who were SB favorites. He’s carried a team to heights from the RB position that I don’t recall ever seeing. They have a shot at the SB and that’s almost solely because of Derrick Henry, I don’t know that Tennessee wins 5 games without him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, germ-x said: Jackson deserves the MVP and I have absolutely no issue with him receiving it, but IMO and this won’t happen because he’s an RB, but the MVP should go to Derrick Henry. He’s completely carried Tennessee all year and now through the playoffs where he’s torched the #1 defense in football, and then the Ravens who were SB favorites. He’s carried a team to heights from the RB position that I don’t recall ever seeing. They have a shot at the SB and that’s almost solely because of Derrick Henry, I don’t know that Tennessee wins 5 games without him. Yeah I think Henry deserves a ton of credit. And I had no issue with your post at all. Jackson isn't there yet as a playoff pocket passer. I think Mahomes is a better player. But look at the improvements Jackson made year 1 to year 2. I think people putting a cap on him and doubting he can improve is odd and something you would see with very few 22 year old athletes. He's incredible to watch and I'm bummed he's a Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 hour ago, champ11 said: He's incredible to watch and I'm bummed he's a Raven Agree with that 100000000%! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 3 hours ago, champ11 said: Because people say crap like "randall cunningham" and "kordell stewart" and "the 22 year old MVP is going to have a 3 or 4 year career" and "mentally weak" and just perpetuate these BS stereotypes. He had a bad couple playoff games (like many have had) and it's not a referendum on his career. I feel like it shouldn't be a surprise why he's polarizing. You just saw why before I could even reply! But it's all good. Bud, he's really fun to watch and I'm a fan. Problem is he runs a college offense. Those don't work for long in the pros. His style of play makes him incredibly vulnerable. I don't think one poster here is demeaning him. Just pointing out that, A. He's not the first of that type of QB and B. So far in the NFL that style is unsustainable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, AKRNA said: Bud, he's really fun to watch and I'm a fan. Problem is he runs a college offense. Those don't work for long in the pros. His style of play makes him incredibly vulnerable. I don't think one poster here is demeaning him. Just pointing out that, A. He's not the first of that type of QB and B. So far in the NFL that style is unsustainable. I respect your opinion as much as anyone’s, but just because the offense is different does not make it a “college” offense or unsustainable. This traditionalism is a huge problem with the NFL and why SO many teams suck. Invest in guys like Trevor Siemian. Joe Flacco. Case Keenum. I can list for pages. These dudes can run a “traditional NFL offense.” Cool. They suck at football. Maybe you should adjust to a new style. A guy that can run for a first down on 3rd and 8 isn’t a weakness Jackson is more vulnerable. The team and he needs to adjust. He’s a guy that can pass and run. He’ll be fine. Saying a dude has a 3-4 year window after winning the NFL MVP at age 22 is demeaning. The comparisons are demeaning. In my opinion. The NFL is overdue for changes to their systematic and dumb approach to the QB position. But the coaching is an old boys club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 What do the 4 teams left have in common? They play defense, they run the ball effectively and they have QBs who win from the pocket. I don’t think that formula will ever change, it hasn’t in my lifetime. College offenses will always be a fad but I don’t think they will ever be a recipe for ultimate success, at least as long as the NFL keeps defense as a part of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: What do the 4 teams left have in common? They play defense, they run the ball effectively and they have QBs who win from the pocket. I don’t think that formula will ever change, it hasn’t in my lifetime. College offenses will always be a fad but I don’t think they will ever be a recipe for ultimate success, at least as long as the NFL keeps defense as a part of the game. Hasn't changed in my lifetime either and thats starting to be a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 34 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: What do the 4 teams left have in common? They play defense, they run the ball effectively and they have QBs who win from the pocket. I don’t think that formula will ever change, it hasn’t in my lifetime. College offenses will always be a fad but I don’t think they will ever be a recipe for ultimate success, at least as long as the NFL keeps defense as a part of the game. They key is that you need a QB that can play in the pocket first and run as a second option. Like Russ, healthy Cam, Aaron Rodgers. Lamar has already shown he can be that. He's not a fad. RG3 showed it to! He just had a terrible organization that promoted him playing dumb. And he made mistakes. It needs to be an organizational attempt to protect these guys and play the right way. The future of the QB position is being able to move as well. Playing out of the pocket first. But you need to adjust to the OL play that plagues the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, AKRNA said: Hasn't changed in my lifetime either and thats starting to be a long time. Things change. It's a piece of the sport. The old guard has refused to let it happen - but it's happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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