Random Thoughts

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

11 hours ago, jsthomp2007 said:

Rick Upchurch's birthday.

Condoleezza Rice’s exfiancé?

[grizmo78]

Just rewatched the 2005 AFC Championship game again. Cant believe how much crap Jake Plummer got for that game. The defense missed some breaks early (couple interceptions, fumble that went out of bounds), but in general played TERRIBLE. Dominque Foxworth in particular. He got abused and the defense gave up 24 points (7 after the Plummer int near the half). Steelers converted 6/7 3rd downs and scored on all of their 4 possessions in the first half. We ran the ball pretty well early then had to give it up because we were behind by so much. Rod Smith dropped 3 catchable passes that hit him in the hands, and I think it was Charlie Adams who dropped another as well. I firmly believe lots of Plummer's downfalls this game was the result of trying to play catchup because of the deficit they were in. He deserves SOME flack but he would have had to play one of his best games to have given us a chance. For a team built on the run game, that was too much of an ask of him. 

 

That style of football was fun to watch though. Having the run game being a bigger part of the game, the amount of play actions, setting up later plays etc. Commentators mentioned something at the beginning of the game that was super interesting too, saying the Broncos would fake blitzes early in the game to see how the Steelers would react then utilize it later in the game to attack the weak points in their protections. Beyond frustrating defense, fun football.  

Edited May 29, 2020 by grizmo78

[thebestever6]

26 minutes ago, grizmo78 said:

Just rewatched the 2005 AFC Championship game again. Cant believe how much crap Jake Plummer got for that game. The defense missed some breaks early (couple interceptions, fumble that went out of bounds), but in general played TERRIBLE. Dominque Foxworth in particular. He got abused and the defense gave up 24 points (7 after the Plummer int near the half). Steelers converted 6/7 3rd downs and scored on all of their 4 possessions in the first half. We ran the ball pretty well early then had to give it up because we were behind by so much. Rod Smith dropped 3 catchable passes that hit him in the hands, and I think it was Charlie Adams who dropped another as well. I firmly believe lots of Plummer's downfalls this game was the result of trying to play catchup because of the deficit they were in. He deserves SOME flack but he would have had to play one of his best games to have given us a chance. For a team built on the run game, that was too much of an ask of him. 

 

That style of football was fun to watch though. Having the run game being a bigger part of the game, the amount of play actions, setting up later plays etc. Commentators mentioned something at the beginning of the game that was super interesting too, saying the Broncos would fake blitzes early in the game to see how the Steelers would react then utilize it later in the game to attack the weak points in their protections. Beyond frustrating defense, fun football.  

Don't understand this take at all the man had 5 years in the system with a team which had peaked and threw two ints and lost two fumbles he was brutal and it was clear the team peaked with him and this is coming from a guy who thinks he's underrated

[grizmo78]

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

Don't understand this take at all the man had 5 years in the system with a team which had peaked and threw two ints and lost two fumbles he was brutal and it was clear the team peaked with him and this is coming from a guy who thinks he's underrated

2005 was his 3rd year in the system and he got benched his 4th.

I'm not saying Plummer was elite or even a top tier qb. He was an above average qb and that game especially highlighted that. I do think he was capable winning a Super Bowl under the right conditions (where he was not the main reason). He was a system QB that needed the strong running game and solid defense to play his best. We all knew that.

In this game though, I'll give you his 2 interceptions, they were pretty bad. 1st one comes at the end of the 1st half down 17-3 and he's trying to do too much. Bad decision and part of why he wan't a top tier qb, but again, down 3 scores with the Steelers getting the ball after the half. (And shocker, defense can't hold to 3, gives up a TD). His second comes early in the 4th down 27-10, again trying to get back in the game. I'm not trying to make excuses for him, but recognizing what he is, being in that position, I wouldn't expect him to put up 350 yards passing 3TDs and 0ints. 

His fumbles need context. First one comes at the end of the first quarter and both tackles (Lepsis and Foster) lose immediately and as Plummer is trying to escape from Foster's guy, Lepsis' guy (Harrison) gets there before Plummer sees him. The second fumble is very late in the 4th quarter on 4th and 10, down 3 scores, with no one to throw to.

Our best shot to win that game is to play solid defense, and keep our running game (best part of that offense) a threat. We ran the ball 14 total times that game... In fact the first time we ran the ball in the second half was mid way through the 4th. 3/5 2nd half rushing attempts came on our last drive, when the game was already over. You cant tell me that is a winning formula for anyone with the caliber of QB we knew we had. 

And again to the defense. Pitt converted 10-16 3rd downs that game, 6/7 coming in the first half that helped them build a 3 score lead by the half. They allowed 358 total yards and either allowed scores, or when Pitt had to punt, it was from near mid field. Of the punts the defense forced, in the first 3 quarters, one was a 3 and out, and the second was after a 9 play drive. 

Again, Im not saying Plummer had no fault in this loss, but the narrative being Jake Plummer is the reason why we lost the 2005 AFC Championship? Not even close. I'd give the defense 60% of the blame, Plummer 25%, and honestly, Rod Smith, Matt Lepsis, and Foster the other 15%. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by grizmo78

[BroncoBruin]

I remember that defense being extremely reliant on blitzes. When they couldn’t get home every DB not named Champ was severely overmatched. 

[thebestever6]

4 hours ago, grizmo78 said:

I'm not saying Plummer was elite or even a top tier qb. He was an above average qb and that game especially highlighted that. I do think he was capable winning a Super Bowl under the right conditions (where he was not the main reason). He was a system QB that needed the strong running game and solid defense to play his best. We all knew that.

I just highly disagree with most of your post . Plummer's game gets magnified because Big Ben's was so great I think he had a 130 qb rating to Plummer's 66. But Plummer didn't play well at all he looked like the game was to big for him from start to finish much like those wild card colts games. 

Could he have won a SB for the 2000 Ravens possibly. I doubt he wins won if you insert him in his prime on the 2015 team. Jake couldn't have played that field position battle and he had that anti clutch gene where you're waiting for a critical mistake and it usually came 

And honestly that 2005 team was probably better than any Team Jay Cutler ever played with so there's no guarantee you get better. Plummer was a purgatory QB . He'd win you games and compete make you out drafting a QB off but you always knew he wasn't it.

Ala Andy Dalton or Alex Smith.

[grizmo78]

38 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I just highly disagree with most of your post . Plummer's game gets magnified because Big Ben's was so great I think he had a 130 qb rating to Plummer's 66. But Plummer didn't play well at all he looked like the game was to big for him from start to finish much like those wild card colts games. 

Could he have won a SB for the 2000 Ravens possibly. I doubt he wins won if you insert him in his prime on the 2015 team. Jake couldn't have played that field position battle and he had that anti clutch gene where you're waiting for a critical mistake and it usually came 

And honestly that 2005 team was probably better than any Team Jay Cutler ever played with so there's no guarantee you get better. Plummer was a purgatory QB . He'd win you games and compete make you out drafting a QB off but you always knew he wasn't it.

Ala Andy Dalton or Alex Smith.

This discussion has gotten a bit past what I was trying to say from my original post. I wasn't talking about Plummer as a whole and whether we should or should not have moved on from him, etc. etc. My main and original point was, he takes all the blame for the 2005 AFC Championship and he shouldn't. That the defense was at minimum, equally at fault for that specific loss. 

[AKRNA]

16 hours ago, grizmo78 said:

This discussion has gotten a bit past what I was trying to say from my original post. I wasn't talking about Plummer as a whole and whether we should or should not have moved on from him, etc. etc. My main and original point was, he takes all the blame for the 2005 AFC Championship and he shouldn't. That the defense was at minimum, equally at fault for that specific loss. 

Your point is well made. Over 50 years ago my dad told me a QB either gets too much credit for a win or too much blame for a loss. That point has been proven 16 weeks a year for the past 50 years. It'll never change.

[thebestever6]

Why was Foxworth starting over Darrent Williams was he injured? Sucks champ dropped a pick 6 early in that game giving Pitt short fields doesn't help a defense either though.

[Cutler06]

Wilkerson went though some minor surgery, hopefully that'll help him compete better when season starts.

[1234567]

On 5/28/2020 at 8:35 PM, BroncoBruin said:

I remember that defense being extremely reliant on blitzes. When they couldn’t get home every DB not named Champ was severely overmatched. 

Champ Bailey fell into that unfortunate trap of being too good. His ability to dominate an entire half of the field allowed Denver to blissfully ignore/neglect (for YEARS) what would have otherwise been some pretty embarrassing deficiencies on those mid-late 2000’s defenses. And it always cost them at the worst possible times; usually at the hands of PFM. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

That game always sticks out to me as such a missed opportunity because I think that if we had been able to beat Pittsburgh we easily defeat Seattle two weeks later and bring home the Lombardi.

[grizmo78]

For anyone interested, I'm taking part in an All NFL Draft on the GM Mock Drafts forum. We're going to be doing a snake style draft and building our own teams including coaches. I've done it in the past and it's been a lot of fun and helps learn about the state of talent in the league and different positions and on different teams. Disclaimer, this process usually takes about a month or so depending on the number of participants and how much people are able to stay on top of time schedules. If anyone's interested check it out! 

 

[7DnBrnc53]

20 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

That game always sticks out to me as such a missed opportunity because I think that if we had been able to beat Pittsburgh we easily defeat Seattle two weeks later and bring home the Lombardi.

And then Plummer would have retired. He has said this on 104.3 The Fan.

[BroncosFan2010]

Joe Horn is a standup guy, that is all.