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AnAngryAmerican

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Just now, jolly red giant said:

There are maybe half a dozen teams in need of a QB - there will be a mad scramble for Herbert.

Who will be above Denver?

NYG for sure

OAK (maybe?  Who knows what Gruden does with Carr)

MIA maybe

WASH maybe

TB maybe

So yeah, Denver needs to keep losing to have a realistic shot.  Personally and probably pipe dream, I hope Kelly plays and plays well, Elway lucks into a QBOTF and we draft Greedy Williams

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52 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

Who will be above Denver?

NYG for sure

OAK (maybe?  Who knows what Gruden does with Carr)

MIA maybe

WASH maybe

TB maybe

So yeah, Denver needs to keep losing to have a realistic shot.  Personally and probably pipe dream, I hope Kelly plays and plays well, Elway lucks into a QBOTF and we draft Greedy Williams

Broncos, Giants are the two teams that will be picking int he top 10 that NEED a QB. Others that NEED - Steelers, Patriots, Chargers, will probably be picking in the 2nd half of the 1st round. 

A few teams MAYBE (these teams could play QB carousel) - Dolphins, Raiders, Jaguars, Cowboys, Bucs - these would all be throwing serviceable QB back into the field though that would start somewhere.

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Herbert (Oregon), Lock (Missouri), Finley (NC State), Jones (Duke), Stidham (Auburn), Grier (WVU), Haskins (OSU) - those are the names i have mostly seen associated with a possibility to get picked in the 1st round. Not going to act like I can scout college QBs, but I will be checking their stats over the next few weeks for sure.

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3 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

If there were two serious QB prospects, that would put Denver in good position. Just not sure beyond Herbert who I really like. Curious to see more of Haskins and Lock. 

And that's the problem - at this stage, to not have 2 serious QB prospects, it means that the guy who ends up #2 has a huge risk of being a reach pick.  Montez has literally no experience of high-level play against good D's. That's terrifying.    Same for Haskins.   The other guys have clear flaws in their game skill-wise that we didn't see with the top 3 last year, and in some cases, they also were very old when they started experiencing success (Grier).   Other guys are just caretaker-type guys.

And while Herbert is the clear head-and-shoulders guy this year - I'd still say he'd have been a clear #4 in last year's class, and frankly, been there neck and neck with Lamar Jackson (I'm still not a big believer in Josh Allen, just too much bust potential, while recognizing his physical tools are elite-generational level).   

The problem is that if Chad Kelly doesn't show enough to be our 2019 guy, Elway can't sit out on the QB class.  Which is ironic, because he chose to pass on the deepest top-end QB class in 2018 with a pick that didn't require a move up...because he was afraid of committing the mistake that seems far more likely to occur in 2019.  Sigh. 

Edited by Broncofan
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25 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

And that's the problem - at this stage, to not have 2 serious QB prospects, it means that the guy who ends up #2 has a huge risk of being a reach pick.  Montez has literally no experience of high-level play against good D's. That's terrifying.    Same for Haskins.   The other guys have clear flaws in their game skill-wise that we didn't see with the top 3 last year, and in some cases, they also were very old when they started experiencing success (Grier).   Other guys are just caretaker-type guys.

And while Herbert is the clear head-and-shoulders guy this year - I'd still say he'd have been a clear #4 in last year's class, and frankly, been there neck and neck with Lamar Jackson (I'm still not a big believer in Josh Allen, just too much bust potential, while recognizing his physical tools are elite-generational level).   

The problem is that if Chad Kelly doesn't show enough to be our 2019 guy, Elway can't sit out on the QB class.  Which is ironic, because he chose to pass on the deepest top-end QB class in 2018 with a pick that didn't require a move up...because he was afraid of committing the mistake that seems far more likely to occur in 2019.  Sigh. 

I like Finley.  He’s in that caretaker mold, but he is asked to make NFL reads/decisions.  Big, solid athlete, enough arm, accurate, gets the ball out quick and on time.  I think he really fits what a lot of the league has moved to offensively with his quick decisions and ability to get the ball out quickly.  

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22 hours ago, germ-x said:

I like Finley.  He’s in that caretaker mold, but he is asked to make NFL reads/decisions.  Big, solid athlete, enough arm, accurate, gets the ball out quick and on time.  I think he really fits what a lot of the league has moved to offensively with his quick decisions and ability to get the ball out quickly.  

I have heard some good things about N.C. State's Ryan Finley as well. He is projected to go in Round 2 in most of the Walter Football mocks. Here are some highlights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5hCKvxE3Po

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Some of the things NFL HCs, OCs, and DCs do in this league completely blows my mind.

I mentioned week 1 watching Steve Sarkisian call 4 goal line plays without Julio Jones (one of the 5 best WRs in the game) on the sideline.

Now I just watched the Giants call 4 plays in the Red Zone without Evan Engram in the game in favor of 3 of those calls with Smithson (or whatever is name is) and Ellison.

I get there is situational football, but many of these coaches get cute.  Get your best football players on the field as much as possible.  Engram is 6’3” 240-245 with 4.4 speed and hops and on top of it is actually a decent blocker.  Why a freak athlete (just like the previous plays by Sarkisian) aren’t in the game in crucial situations is mind boggling...it’s not that complicated.

Edited by germ-x
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Lol and Eli, my god.  That last red zone possession he had 3 open receivers on the routes that the receivers ran and he just threw crappy balls, but still went nuts on his guys like it was their fault.

He so bad wants to be Peyton, but just doesn’t have the pre snap reads or the off-season work with his receivers.  2 of the 3 throws were absolutely awful by Eli, but he still found a way to blame everyone else.

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People complain about Denver, but if you watched the game tonight Denver could be coached far worse, which is sad because Joseph sucks. Eli should be benched and Shurmur fired.  That was maybe the worst coached/managed game I’ve ever seen.  

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I got laughed out of the building for bringing this up in the basketball forum back in June. But the Nuggets are now 4-2 vs the Warriors over their last six meetings dating back to 2017. This team was hand built specifically to be a Golden State killer, and while they're choking the life out of them in the playoffs this year, Lebron will be watching from home. He picked the wrong team. Should have at least listened to what Kroenke had to say. 

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10 hours ago, germ-x said:

People complain about Denver, but if you watched the game tonight Denver could be coached far worse, which is sad because Joseph sucks. Eli should be benched and Shurmur fired.  That was maybe the worst coached/managed game I’ve ever seen.  

To be fair to Shurmur, we have no idea how he's limiting the playbook because Eli is the QB.

On that 4th down gamble at the 2, you can see that OBJ is open, and Eli doesn't pull the trigger.  Which then looks like an absurd rollout with Eli, is actually meant to be a quick-strike play.   It's so clear Bad Eli is limiting this O (yes their OL sucks, but his play is just killing them).  

Now, on the other hand, calls like that swing pass to Barkley on 3rd and 2, and a jet sweep to the short side of the field...yeah, really poor play calling. I do think Shurmur will figure it out though...once they give him an actual QB to play with.    It doesn't excuse some of the play call blunders, but we don't get to see how limited they are because of how limited Eli is.

Here is the 4th down play reaction by Shurmur.   call - Eli just doesn’t pull the trigger:  

And the kicker - it was a great call - but Eli didn’t pull the trigger when it was designed to go: 

That’s a throw every NFL QB has to commit to and make.  It was designed exactly for that moment.    Even more so on 4th down.  Eli just isn’t at an average QB skill level anymore.   There were many other examples but this showed how the play call gets botched by horrific QB play.  

Other play calls were very suspect and their OL needs serious work (still) but when your QB is seeing ghosts, won’t look downfield and can’t pull the trigger when he’s supposed to on quick hitters, well it’s hard to know what happens if you have even a league average QB. 

 

————————————

 

On the note of coaching, it certainly is getting worse.   Besides NYG, there were  just some historically bad moments that people probably will miss because it's not DEN, and bigger headlines overshadowed them:

1. TEN @ LAC - everyone will talk about TEN's decision to go for 2...what I object to is the play call, when they have a mobile QB, a run game that wore down the LAC D, and a D that was gassed (40-20 advantage in ToP with TEN, 64-43 play advantage).   You can't throw slants at the 2 and 1 yard line, even if you are throwing, use RPO and have RB's in the backfield, so the D can play the run honestly.    And use Mariota's legs.   SMH. 

But what's totally missed - in that game, with 1:20 left, LAC doesn't use ANY of their TO's to kill the clock when TEN has the ball at the LAC 12 yard line, 1st and 10.   And because TEN only had 1 TO left, there was no risk that if TEN turned it over, they could get the ball back.  Instead, it was a make-or-break play with 23 secs left - instead of a 1+ minute left, and a chance for a winning FG.  TEN didn't make the 2-pt convert, but that's basic coaching 101 that Lynn messed up on.  And he did that in the 1H end, letting TEN drain 90 secs of clock to only leave 30 secs left, again at the LAC 10 to start off with.   Just bad, bad clock management.

 

2.  CLE @ TAM - that OT, lol.   TAM and then CLE both had chances for FG's early with ball near midfield, and then both got incredibly conservative, with run up the middle (stuffed) 1st down, short pass (stopped) on 2nd down, and then both QB's take drive killing sacks.    It's just that Tampa got the ball last, and then the K bailed them out after another sack on 2nd down...for a 59 yard FG.   The expression on Mayfield was priceless.  He should have also gone after the playcalling which was unbelievably conservative in the 1H, why they only had 2 pts from a safety and a FG...trying to run the ball against a TAM D that can stop the run, but not the pass - and then watched as they put up 2 TD's  in the 4Q when they finally opened things up (shades of old Elway days with Dan Reeves).    Basically, both coaches tried to not lose...and TAM's K just bailed Koetter out a 2nd time.  SMH again.

 

3.  DAL @ WAS - everyone is talking about the penalty call, which was bogus (should have been a 42 yarder with offsides, instead of a 52-yarder).  But what's missed is that DAL had the ball at the WAS 30 with 1 minute left - and then ran TWO plays in that minute.  TWO plays.   Basically, HC Garrett played for the tie once they drove to the 30.  Sure, it was BS on the penalty call, but Garrett played for the tie...when they could have played for the W, and made it a chip shot FG.  Someone asked why Garrett should not be a HC candidate in DEN - other than Mike McCarthy, there's no one more overrated for stuff like that.  SMH x 100000.


Now, none of the above means VJ should be excused - he should be gone, no matter what.  But it's stunning how much bad coaching there is out there.   It also shows how much good coaching can make a huge difference.  Hopefully no matter when we do it, and who we find to replace VJ, we make the right long-term call.

Edited by Broncofan
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