Random Thoughts

[thebestever6]

29 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Peters did play, correct on that count - but he's always been a big play CB on both sides - but when it's him and Talib, they're just a different unit (let alone with a 3rd CB who's functional, which they lost).   Wade's scheme requires two guys who can play on islands, and Peters hasn't been that guy at all as the only guy left - that was the problem in KC.  But put him as the 2nd guy, and the matchups suddenly all work.

The Rams also have Gurley, and 3 WR's who are amazing and all better than what we have (Sutton has potential, that's it, but Sanders wouldn't surpass Woods/Cooks/Kupp).   They are so deep they cut their 8th OL - who immediately had 5 teams put in WW claims to get him.    That kind of depth is staggering - but like every team, enough injuries happen at critical areas, especially the ones they didn't stock for depth, and great teams exploit it.   

Their coaching is innovative, no doubt - top-notch.   Goff is a top 10 QB, too - and cheap, but you make it sound like these things are really easy to get.  They're not.  And it takes time.   We're on the right path, but people are DREAMING if they thinking we're close to contention.    One W does make us close to the path to contention.   Still, we're miles ahead of last year, which is saying something.  

Defensively we held the rams, and the chiefs to 26.6 point average. So our defense is getting there too contention.  

So in reality we have to close the gap on offense. How do we do that.  Well next year our promising rookies will have a year lf maturation.  That will help, and we also have another draft and free agency to sure up some things on both sides.

I really don't think its easy to get an upper tier qb and offensive genius type coach. But, i believe you have to try. I think if our d continues to improve which is a probability because elway is decent at drafting that side of the ball. And I don't think it should be too difficult to get better than Keenum long term. I'm all for getting a competent qb prospect to develop and maybe we catch lightning in a bottle. If we can keep adding weapons and reinforcements and cultivating young talent on offense we'll have something with a serviceable qb behind center. I just don't see Case being serviceable longterm. Maybe a part of next year hopefully if we can get another qb in the fold.

[Broncofan]

10 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Defensively we held the rams, and the chiefs to 26.6 point average. So our defense is getting there too contention.  

So in reality we have to close the gap on offense. How do we do that.  Well next year our promising rookies will have a year lf maturation.  That will help, and we also have another draft and free agency to sure up some things on both sides.

I really don't think its easy to get an upper tier qb and offensive genius type coach. But, i believe you have to try. I think if our d continues to improve which is a probability because elway is decent at drafting that side of the ball. And I don't think it should be too difficult to get better than Keenum long term. I'm all for getting a competent qb prospect to develop and maybe we catch lightning in a bottle. If we can keep adding weapons and reinforcements and cultivating young talent on offense we'll have something with a serviceable qb behind center. I just don't see Case being serviceable longterm. Maybe a part of next year hopefully if we can get another qb in the fold.

We held the Rams on D with HFA and taking out Kupp that game, where they held a 2-score lead for much of the game, and our pass rush clearly put Goff at risk.   Re: KC, we just match up well vs. their pass game - probably better than any D in the league, because of what we can do with our pass rush (and because of what Andy Reid gives back on game day - he's such a genius in game prep during the week and player development, but in-game he's just awful).  Plus we can control clock with our run game.   

The issue is that we can't match up with any of the good teams on O.   And on the road, we're well below average on O.   Those aren't what teams close to contention do.

The good news is we are so much better than last year.  But it's also no coincidence we're that way because of our drafted guys from this year, and cheap young players are starting to develop (like Shelby Harris & if it holds up, Wilkinson).    All our win-now moves have literally crapped out - Clinton McDonald, Veldheer, even Pacman Jones (and certainly Tramaine Brock), and of course....Keenum - have been HUGE whiffs on our team.    And those moves were made because of the belief we're not that far away.   Meanwhile, the more future-minded ones are the ones that pay off huge - because they're cheap, cost-controlled guys.  But it comes with the understanding that they take time.   Wilkinson was on last year's PS.   Our rookies have had a huge impact.   All great moves.   Cravens was probably the one off-season move that has 2019+ potential in FA - but it was also the one FA/trade move done with the future in mind, since he had 2 more years of cost control after 2018.

We can always hope we repeat a 2018 draft - but the more likely result is we just hope to continue on a successful approach, and it takes more time.  If we start to think we aren't that far away - we start making win-now moves - and it's been those win-now moves that have actually stunted our growth the most.   It's why I'll stand on the hill we're not close to contention yet - but we're headed the right way.  The ironic part, though, is that the more patient approach is what's helped us the most short-term - which is another reason to stick on this path.  If we arrive there earlier, great - but if we stay on the youth-based course, we'll ensure our return is sustainable.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Broncofan

[thebestever6]

Homicide Hunter is my favorite show on tv its on the id channel. Ironically Joe Kenda his stories from the show are based on his life as a crime detective in Colorado.  

Anyone know if his stories are legit on the show?

[thebestever6]

Was wondering why I've been hearing less Rueben Foster should of been the pick in 2017 over Bolles debate. 

Then I check pff to check  Reuben Fosters rating this year and hes below average  78th linebacker. So naturally I check Bollles rating expecting a poor rating and to my  surprise its above average at a 69.

Edited November 23, 2018 by thebestever6

[germ-x]

2 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

Was wondering why I've been hearing less Rueben Foster should of been the pick in 2017 over Bolles debate. 

Then I check pff to check  Reuben Fosters rating this year and hes below average  78th linebacker. So naturally I check Bollles rating expecting a poor rating and to my  surprise its above average at a 69.

Bolles has been solid.  All the talk of him being a bust needs to stop.  He isn’t a great player, maybe not even a good one, but NFL OLs seriously suck so bad and I don’t think most realize this.  He needs to get a grip on the penalties, but overall is a more than capable NFL LT.

Going to add this again though, he’d be a potentially elite OG.  It’ll never happen because of how hard it is to find OTs in today’s game that are decent, but I think Bolles would be terrific at LG.

[thebestever6]

10 hours ago, germ-x said:

Bolles has been solid.  All the talk of him being a bust needs to stop.  He isn’t a great player, maybe not even a good one, but NFL OLs seriously suck so bad and I don’t think most realize this.  He needs to get a grip on the penalties, but overall is a more than capable NFL LT.

Going to add this again though, he’d be a potentially elite OG.  It’ll never happen because of how hard it is to find OTs in today’s game that are decent, but I think Bolles would be terrific at LG.

I know the penalties would go way down.

[1234567]

Watched the Ortiz/Liddell weigh-ins.. Age does things to your body that steroids/TRT can't fix. They both have great physiques, but there's nothing you can do about 50 year old joints and brittle connective tissue. They both move like old men, and it's going to show tonight. Still hopin Chuck KO's him again though. Lmao, never get tired of seeing that.

[Broncofan]

On 11/23/2018 at 6:15 PM, thebestever6 said:

Was wondering why I've been hearing less Rueben Foster should of been the pick in 2017 over Bolles debate. 

Then I check pff to check  Reuben Fosters rating this year and hes below average  78th linebacker. So naturally I check Bollles rating expecting a poor rating and to my  surprise its above average at a 69.

Foster's been hurt this year - can't predict that.   Re: Bolles,  the issue though is that Bolles was the 3rd best T available if you wanted to go there - Ramczyk & even Cam Robinson were seen as higher, and while Robinson's ACL uses hindsight to neutralize the gain, that evaluation remains the same. 

It's been said before, but the issue again with the PFF rating - it assumes the opposition is the same.   Bolles is the #37th T - but he's actually one of the worst pass blocking T's, and one of the best run-blocking T's - and again, for a 1st round pick, that's simply not good enough, not when faced with who was available.   

Unless he can actually hold his own in pass pro (without actually holding), it's still an awful pick given the other choices.   He had a very good game vs. LAC, and he made progress vs. HOU, so I'll give credit where it's due - but it's still a huge work in progress, whereas Ramczyk was touted as the more complete guy, and has been a huge success - which hurts given he was the consensus choice.   That's indisputable.  The fact Ramczyk is younger actually makes it worse - he's likely only going to be even better as time goes on, whereas Bolles is already  his physical peak.   Frankly, it's not a question of physical growth with Bolles, it's technique, and unless the change last game is sustained, it's far more likely it's a huge missed opp.

 

On 11/23/2018 at 8:34 PM, germ-x said:

Bolles has been solid.  All the talk of him being a bust needs to stop.  He isn’t a great player, maybe not even a good one, but NFL OLs seriously suck so bad and I don’t think most realize this.  He needs to get a grip on the penalties, but overall is a more than capable NFL LT.

Going to add this again though, he’d be a potentially elite OG.  It’ll never happen because of how hard it is to find OTs in today’s game that are decent, but I think Bolles would be terrific at LG.

Bolles is a great run-blocking T - but up until last 2 games, a complete zero in pass blocking.  That's hardly decent - especially in today's NFL where pass pro is essential from the T's.  @lomaxgrUK's breakdown also confirms this assessment, and it's borne out by the more objective metrics as well.   I agree Bolles could play well at G, if we were going to go there - but even then, Forrest Lamp would have been hands down the better pick then (actual top 10 talent overall who got downgraded because of how teams devalue G vs. T - which is increasingly being shown to be a ridiculous notion, but I digress).   Lamp's a huge reason why LAC's OL has turned around their fortunes from a bottom-10 until to top 10.   It's all a sunk cost, but we have to call Bolles a missed pick if he can't stay at LT, let alone T either side - even if he's a good G - Lamp was the hands-down call if we were going that way.    It's just a question on how much - bust will be too strong if he is even league-average - but balance is necessary - he can't be a total liability in pass pro even if he's great in run blocking - not in today's NFL. 

Still, it's only year 2, so we have to judge the body of work, and there's still time - but unless HOU/LAC is the turning point,  and we just get more of the great-run / bad-pass pro play, then it's still a miss.  It's just the least-worst pick in the disaster of 2017's draft.  But that's not exactly saying much, either.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Broncofan

[germ-x]

2 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Foster's been hurt this year - can't predict that.   Re: Bolles,  the issue though is that Bolles was the 3rd best T available if you wanted to go there - Ramczyk & even Cam Robinson were seen as higher, and while Robinson's ACL uses hindsight to neutralize the gain, that evaluation remains the same. 

It's been said before, but the issue again with the PFF rating - it assumes the opposition is the same.   Bolles is the #37th T - but he's actually one of the worst pass blocking T's, and one of the best run-blocking T's - and again, for a 1st round pick, that's simply not good enough, not when faced with who was available.   

Unless he can actually hold his own in pass pro (without actually holding), it's still an awful pick given the other choices.   He had a very good game vs. LAC, and he made progress vs. HOU, so I'll give credit where it's due - but it's still a huge work in progress, whereas Ramczyk was touted as the more complete guy, and has been a huge success - which hurts given he was the consensus choice.   That's indisputable.  The fact Ramczyk is younger actually makes it worse - he's likely only going to be even better as time goes on, whereas Bolles is already  his physical peak.   Frankly, it's not a question of physical growth with Bolles, it's technique, and unless the change last game is sustained, it's far more likely it's a huge missed opp.

 

Bolles is a great run-blocking T - but up until last 2 games, a complete zero in pass blocking.  That's hardly decent - especially in today's NFL where pass pro is essential from the T's.  @lomaxgrUK's breakdown also confirms this assessment, and it's borne out by the more objective metrics as well.   I agree Bolles could play well at G, if we were going to go there - but even then, Forrest Lamp would have been hands down the better pick then (actual top 10 talent overall who got downgraded because of how teams devalue G vs. T - which is increasingly being shown to be a ridiculous notion, but I digress).   Lamp's a huge reason why LAC's OL has turned around their fortunes from a bottom-10 until to top 10.   It's all a sunk cost, but we have to call Bolles a missed pick if he can't stay at LT, let alone T either side - even if he's a good G - Lamp was the hands-down call if we were going that way.    It's just a question on how much - bust will be too strong if he is even league-average - but balance is necessary - he can't be a total liability in pass pro even if he's great in run blocking - not in today's NFL. 

Still, it's only year 2, so we have to judge the body of work, and there's still time - but unless HOU/LAC is the turning point,  and we just get more of the great-run / bad-pass pro play, then it's still a miss.  It's just the least-worst pick in the disaster of 2017's draft.  But that's not exactly saying much, either.

This is wrong on so many levels.  Bolles isn’t some elite pass blocker, but he’s far from a “zero” he gets it done consistently, the only game he hasn’t this year was against Baltimore and Suggs.  Other than that he’s been pretty damn solid across the board aside from penalties.  He eliminates the penalties and he’s a borderline top 20-25 OT.  Not saying he’s the right pick, but he isn’t a turnstile at LT, a “zero” that’s a huge over exaggeration.

I don’t know what you’ve been watching, but Forrest Lamp has been AWFUL, he makes Bolles look like a HOFer.  I loved Lamp too.  Would have taken him over Bolles if I were Denver, but at this point Bolles was easily the right pick over Lamp/Feeney.  Lamp is coming off injury and getting his feet under him so there is definitely room for improvement, but he isn’t the reason the SD OL is improved (even though they aren’t) but like the Bolles “zero” comment, Lamp being the reason the chargers are a top 10 OL unit (which they aren’t, they’re ranked 26th according to PFF and 5 spots below Denver) is a huge over exaggeration.  Forrest Lamp currently has a 57 overall grade, which is no more than average, Dan Feeney has been even worse.

Okung and Schofield are the ones holding that OL together.  Not surprisingly, having a QB that can play makes OTs look good.

Edited November 25, 2018 by germ-x

[Broncofan]

36 minutes ago, germ-x said:

This is wrong on so many levels.  Bolles isn’t some elite pass blocker, but he’s far from a “zero” he gets it done consistently, the only game he hasn’t this year was against Baltimore and Suggs.  Other than that he’s been pretty damn solid across the board aside from penalties.  He eliminates the penalties and he’s a borderline top 20-25 OT.  Not saying he’s the right pick, but he isn’t a turnstile at LT, a “zero” that’s a huge over exaggeration.

I don’t know what you’ve been watching, but Forrest Lamp has been AWFUL, he makes Bolles look like a HOFer.  I loved Lamp too.  Would have taken him over Bolles if I were Denver, but at this point Bolles was easily the right pick over Lamp/Feeney.  Lamp is coming off injury and getting his feet under him so there is definitely room for improvement, but he isn’t the reason the SD OL is improved (even though they aren’t) but like the Bolles “zero” comment, Lamp being the reason the chargers are a top 10 OL unit (which they aren’t, they’re ranked 26th according to PFF and 5 spots below Denver) is a huge over exaggeration.  Forrest Lamp currently has a 57 overall grade, which is no more than average, Dan Feeney has been even worse.

Okung and Schofield are the ones holding that OL together.  Not surprisingly, having a QB that can play makes OTs look good.

Again, though - the issue is that PFF assumes that the competition is equal.  And it hasn't been - other than the OAK games & SF, Feeney's been facing the top interior DL in the game - ours x2, SEA, LAR, CLE, BUF, and even KC (surprisingly enough top 10 DL pass rush unit), it's their DL that's their strong point - all top half to top 10 DL's in pass rush by DVOA (and in CLE/LAR's case, their interior guys are the key <with Garrett on the EDGE obv in CLE>).   It's like using the PFF grade for McGovern vs. Sheldon Richardson and Suh and saying he's a bad player.   

Now, once you account for how good the other teams' DL are - guess what?  LAC ranks as the 7th overall OL....in both run & pass pro.   DVOA is much better at correlating unit play for this reason (and because it also factors in game script / weather /etc. - like gaining 8 yards on 3rd and 7 is much different than 3rd and 15, or up 2+ scores vs. being behind).   DVOA - https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol (the DL links are above as well).

Bolles has faced below average pass-rushers up until HOU & LAC - I will totally give him credit there, but his struggles are worse in pass pro given the context that much of his problems have been against average to below-average opposition.   While it's fine to say "eliminate the penalties, and he's fine" - that's like saying if only Case could avoid sacks/TO's, he'd be fine.  Until he does it, it's hard to assume it's going to improve.    And keep in mind - Terrell Suggs hasn't done anything remotely similar to what he did against Bolles - not just by PFF rating (he's the 65th DL) - but the eye test confirms it too.

The extra kicker?   Players coming off ACL aren't at peak strength/explosion until 18 months.   So we're not even seeing Lamp at full power yet.   When you take the guys he's faced in context, I'm way more impressed with his play than Bolles (although I'll be the first to give him credit for playing really well last week, and it started in HOU in the 2H there as well).  

Your take that Schofield (and Okung, albeit more in pass pro as an anchor) is playing well though is spot on, entirely fair.    Which is unexpected, to say the least, too. 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Broncofan

[germ-x]

9 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Again, though - the issue is that PFF assumes that the competition is equal.  And it hasn't been - other than the OAK games & SF, Feeney's been facing the top interior DL in the game - ours x2, SEA, LAR, and even KC, it's their DL that's their strong point - all top half to top 10 DL's in pass rush by DVOA (and in CLE/LAR's case, their interior guys are the key <with Garrett on the EDGE obv in CLE>).   It's like using the PFF grade for McGovern vs. Sheldon Richardson and Suh and saying he's a bad player.   

Bolles has faced below average pass-rushers up until HOU & LAC - I will totally give him credit there, but his struggles are worse in pass pro given the context that much of his problems have been against average to below-average opposition.   While it's fine to say "eliminate the penalties, and he's fine" - that's like saying if only Case could avoid sacks/TO's, he'd be fine.  Until he does it, it's hard to assume it's going to improve.    And keep in mind - Terrell Suggs hasn't done anything remotely similar to what he did against Bolles - not just by PFF rating (he's the 65th DL) - but the eye test confirms it too.

The extra kicker?   Players coming off ACL aren't at peak strength/explosion until 18 months.   So we're not even seeing Lamp at full power yet.   When you take the guys he's faced in context, I'm way more impressed with his play than Bolles (although I'll be the first to give him credit for playing really well last week, and it started in HOU in the 2H there as well).  

Your take that Schofield (and Okung, albeit more in pass pro as an anchor) is playing well though is spot on, entirely fair.    Which is unexpected, to say the least, too. 

What the Chargers have faced hasn’t been any more difficult than what Denver has.  Literally every team you mentioned other than Cleveland, Denver has played this year.  It’s not like the Chargers have faced a gauntlet of elite front 7s.  Dan Feeney has just been bad, plain and simple.

Lamp deserves the benefit of the doubt, he may very well become an elite player.  But throwing his name in the mix with Bolles, when Lamp has done absolutely nothing thus far (even if it is due to injury) isn’t justifiable.

 

[Broncofan]

3 minutes ago, germ-x said:

What the Chargers have faced hasn’t been any more difficult than what Denver has.  Literally every team you mentioned other than Cleveland, Denver has played this year.  It’s not like the Chargers have faced a gauntlet of elite front 7s.  Dan Feeney has just been bad, plain and simple.

Lamp deserves the benefit of the doubt, he may very well become an elite player.  But throwing his name in the mix with Bolles, when Lamp has done absolutely nothing thus far (even if it is due to injury) isn’t justifiable.

 

Again, though, the interior defenders on those D's are much tougher to face than the EDGE/4-3 DE's Bolles has faced - there are 4 easy games (OAK x 2, ARI & SF are a wash) for both teams (DEN/LAC have 1 game left vs SF & ARI).  But the rest, it's clearly weighted to interior DL studs -  Suh/Donald for LAR, Casey for TEN, Leonard Williams for NYJ, even Chris Jones in KC is now an elite DL etc.  CLE is probably the only one where the T's have the tougher matchup (and we haven't seen how DEN fares yet either).

It's pretty fair to say the interior guys have had a MUCH tougher matchup - while the T's are facing some much easier opposition (although Garrett will be a monster test for sure).   Which kind of matters since we are talking Bolles as a T facing his pass rushers vs. Lamp facing his guys.   Saying they faced the same teams ignores the matchups that are VERY different, and the fact that the best players on D were usually playing inside.  We're not talking just good players, but great ones.   

Either way, though, it matters more how things go moving forward.   I'll give Bolles his due if he can keep his recent success going in pass pro (he's always been a run road grader).  We'll see. 

[Broncofan]

On the related note, though - as someone who stood on the Reuben Foster flag, while the weed stuff never bothered me - a 2nd arrest for DV, even if the 1st one was completely bogus - shows he just doesn't have the judgment to stay out of trouble.   

Even if it comes out somehow that he wasn't in the wrong here, to get the extra chance after all he went through, and to get into this situation AGAIN, well, at best he's just not smart enough to stay out of trouble off-the-field.  At worst, he's beyond real-life redemption (forget football).

I'll own that one, a big whiff there.    

Edited November 25, 2018 by Broncofan

[BroncoBruin]

What a damn shame. My favorite LB I've scouted, just a huge waste. 

Need Bolles to keep making strides. I'm encouraged by what we saw last week. 

[germ-x]

1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said:

What a damn shame. My favorite LB I've scouted, just a huge waste. 

Need Bolles to keep making strides. I'm encouraged by what we saw last week. 

The guy clearly has some serious anger issues and absolutely zero coping skills.