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AnAngryAmerican

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Once again, the strange rule is that they can't make over 50% of their annual by reffing. That means they've got to have another part time job paying them over $200k annually. 

That really trims the field. 

@lomaxgrUK just opened up a really complicated topic. A few points.

There's really no shortcut. Basically you've got to start in Pop Warner, move through High School, get a job reffing college games and apply for work at the NFL level. The only one that really pays is the NFL. By the time you get there you're well established in your chosen profession and you officiate on weekends for the love of the game, sort of a hobby or pastime. Instead of playing 18 with your pals, going fishing, whatever, you go to a stadium, put on your Zebra suit and run around a stadium for 3 hours getting abuse from fans.

That takes one hell of a commitment. Basically give up your fall weekends, mostly unpaid, for about 20 years so you can apply for an NFL gig. Only about 150 positions available and very low turnover. Just read that the average age for NFL officials is 51.

So, @lomaxgrUK you've roped me in. I'm gonna spend way more time than I should now trying to figure out a solution. Alot like a song you hear that you can't get out of your head.

 

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13 hours ago, AKRNA said:

So I just looked up the salary of the refs and they were paid  $189,000 last year, scheduled to move to $205,000 in 2019. Just how much money were you thinking?

Here's the wierd rule I found. "One interesting tidbit is that part-time NFL officials are restricted to earning no more than 50 percent of their annual income from refereeing in the NFL. Another job – and a well-paid job at that – is a requirement. Referees' side gigs run the gamut from dairy farmer to high school principal."

That seems real strange. I'm with you, I think that should be their full time season job.

 

Honestly, I don't think that is enough. That is going to sound crazy to some people but given the pressure (public pressure at that), and the amount of profit the NFL makes, why not pay them (at least) the player minimum salary?

Given the limited amount of these jobs available, is that salary really going to make young people commit to doing the job as a career? I have my doubts.

12 hours ago, Broncofan said:

The problem is 2-fold:

1.  The best refs now often are successful at other jobs.  So you make it full time you lose a few of the best.   Long term you can deal with it but short term the quality goes down noticeably.   That’s a tough sell in today’s impatient world. 

2.   As you said it’s a position that few actually want to want to do.   Money talks but you then narrow the field further if you require it to be full time. 

The league is up to 24 full time officials as of this year.   So it’s working it’s way up.   But there’s no quick fix coming.  The fact that 4-5 senior guys retired the last 2 years (Ed Hochuli and his guns being a partner in a law firm one of the famous cases of all points above) really has shown up this year. 

But if you paid them double, would they not just accept the ref gig full time and leave their other job? There shouldn't even be a discussion there - the fact it's even possible that someone wouldn't take the gig full time shows that it isn't valued enough (which is mental considering the importance of the game).

Honestly, I would consider bringing more in and not having them necessarily ref every single week. Freshen them up, create a scoring system on how they have performed.

10 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Once again, the strange rule is that they can't make over 50% of their annual by reffing. That means they've got to have another part time job paying them over $200k annually. 

That really trims the field. 

@lomaxgrUK just opened up a really complicated topic. A few points.

There's really no shortcut. Basically you've got to start in Pop Warner, move through High School, get a job reffing college games and apply for work at the NFL level. The only one that really pays is the NFL. By the time you get there you're well established in your chosen profession and you officiate on weekends for the love of the game, sort of a hobby or pastime. Instead of playing 18 with your pals, going fishing, whatever, you go to a stadium, put on your Zebra suit and run around a stadium for 3 hours getting abuse from fans.

That takes one hell of a commitment. Basically give up your fall weekends, mostly unpaid, for about 20 years so you can apply for an NFL gig. Only about 150 positions available and very low turnover. Just read that the average age for NFL officials is 51.

So, @lomaxgrUK you've roped me in. I'm gonna spend way more time than I should now trying to figure out a solution. Alot like a song you hear that you can't get out of your head.

 

That first line is absolutely bonkers. Why is that the case? The job should be their sole focus for crying out loud.

I agree with everything you have said here. 

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4 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Honestly, I don't think that is enough. That is going to sound crazy to some people but given the pressure (public pressure at that), and the amount of profit the NFL makes, why not pay them (at least) the player minimum salary?

Given the limited amount of these jobs available, is that salary really going to make young people commit to doing the job as a career? I have my doubts..

But if you paid them double, would they not just accept the ref gig full time and leave their other job? There shouldn't even be a discussion there - the fact it's even possible that someone wouldn't take the gig full time shows that it isn't valued enough (which is mental considering the importance of the game).

Honestly, I would consider bringing more in and not having them necessarily ref every single week. Freshen them up, create a scoring system on how they have performed.

 

Your first part underlines the problem though - so few ppl will target NFL referee as the goal.  

As for the doubling the money for present refs - they’ve spent a lifetime getting to where they are at the other career.   And it makes as much if not more.    You can offer the same $ but often that person ID’s themself as much as a lawyer (Hochuli) or other occupation first.   I don’t think the league would lose all the refs - but some would leave.   And we saw what happened when 4-5 senior officials left in a 2-year span.   

The league does need to invest in refs & officials more and the ideal is full-time.   The implementation is a far trickier process.  

Edited by Broncofan
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I love pff it seems to always confirm what I watch. Like I've watched mitch Trubisky at least 5 times this yesr and I always thought he sucked when I watch it. So then I got on pfr and he has good stats and a great qbr. 

But then I go to pff and see he's the 33rd ranked qb at 66.3. He's ranked even lower than Case Keenum. 

Edited by thebestever6
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9 hours ago, BullsandBroncos said:

One of the funniest things I've seen on this site was someone claiming LeRoy Butler was better than Steve Atwater.

There was also someone in the General Discussion area that said that Elway kept Vance Johnson and Mark Jackson out of the Hall of Fame.

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8 hours ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

There was also someone in the General Discussion area that said that Elway kept Vance Johnson and Mark Jackson out of the Hall of Fame.

Thats pretty funny. How do two guys that haven't got one pro bowl between them plan on getting to Canton, with or without Elway?

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2 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Thats pretty funny. How do two guys that haven't got one pro bowl between them plan on getting to Canton, with or without Elway?

I don't know. They think that Elway was overrated because of his stats under Reeves. That's why those people say such absurd things. They also said that Dan Reeves made Phil Simms when he went to NY in 1993.

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12 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

I don't know. They think that Elway was overrated because of his stats under Reeves. That's why those people say such absurd things. They also said that Dan Reeves made Phil Simms when he went to NY in 1993.

Man, they gotta be related to Dan or something. Elway was a statistical disaster under Reeves. It wasn't until Reeves left and Denver went to a WCO that Elway really started to shine.

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37 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

Man, they gotta be related to Dan or something. Elway was a statistical disaster under Reeves. It wasn't until Reeves left and Denver went to a WCO that Elway really started to shine.

Yes. That's when Jim Fassel (Elway's college QB coach) joined the Broncos as OC-QB coach. At Stanford, Elway threw for over 60% twice and had good stats. Then he joined Denver, and was under Reeves' antiquated system for 10 years.

Steve Watson once called Reeves' offense the Edsel System (he was quoted in the book Armed and Dangerous about Elway). Also, in a Sept. 2, 1984 issue of SI (in the Extra Points section), There were some interesting comments about Dan's system:

https://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/mm/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvault-cdn.si.com%2FSI_ISSUE_IMAGES%2FSports%20Illustrated%2F1984%2F09%2F19840903%2FSports_Illustrated_43425_19840903-046-2048.jpg&q=85

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1 hour ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

Yes. That's when Jim Fassel (Elway's college QB coach) joined the Broncos as OC-QB coach. At Stanford, Elway threw for over 60% twice and had good stats. Then he joined Denver, and was under Reeves' antiquated system for 10 years.

Steve Watson once called Reeves' offense the Edsel System (he was quoted in the book Armed and Dangerous about Elway). Also, in a Sept. 2, 1984 issue of SI (in the Extra Points section), There were some interesting comments about Dan's system:

https://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/mm/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvault-cdn.si.com%2FSI_ISSUE_IMAGES%2FSports%20Illustrated%2F1984%2F09%2F19840903%2FSports_Illustrated_43425_19840903-046-2048.jpg&q=85

I just remember a bit. Mostly, run left, run right, incomplete pass, punt.

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