Random Thoughts

[champ11]

1 minute ago, BroncoBruin said:

2019 Raptors might be a good call. If Siakam becomes a long term star, we’ll look at that playoff run as his ascent. Even if he never reaches that level, man that team was 8-9 players deep and everyone was a shooting threat. The 2003 Spurs are easily the best example of this. It was Duncan being unbelievable and Popovich just getting the most out of some really limited role players. Of course the East teams in the Finals those years were kind of a joke.

From the second Bulls run through the mid 2000s, the NBA really has a severe talent drought. Every team was playing a few stiffs. The 2003 draft was kind of the first step out of that era, and by the time you got to all those great OKC picks, the league was really back.

Jokic is special. Feels like Porter‘s development is what the Nuggets’ future hinges on. I thought they should have cashed in Porter + some other assets from that deep roster to trade for Beal, but now that Porter’s proven his potential, they’re in a good spot. 

true, siakam is pretty great. and lowry has been one of the most underrated players from this era. so maybe not an exception but definitely a unique team with the kawhi rental.

and agreed with regards to porter. murray could be a third fiddle on an elite team or a movable asset. small market teams like the nuggets need to draft and develop HOF level guys and they have one. just need one or two more lol. but porter is insanely special as a talent. it's brutal that he's missed a couple huge developmental years but if he can turn into an all star player they may be set. 

really was looking forward to seeing LeBron pushing for another title / if Giannis could get to the next level in the playoffs this year. massive bummer 

[BroncoBruin]

1 minute ago, AKRNA said:

I don't think anyone said that. The Celtics were loaded.

I said if you want to watch a low post duel the Russell / Chamberlain head to heads were epic.

Was responding to UK. Those Celtics teams had 6 or 7 Hall of Famers. Wilt’s teams were less talented but not comparable to LeBron’s early Cavs teams.

I get a kick out of 50s-60s basketball. It’s a different world. Track meet pace, dreadful shooting but the great big men were so skilled. Wilt could step into any era and be a massive problem. Of course in today’s era he would have been developing his jump shot at an early age and been an altogether different player.

[jsthomp2007]

Would the Bulls have won eight in a row if MJ hadn't decided to take two years off?  And if they had would they have been the best dynasty of any sport?  I always forget about hockey teams, I just don't know that much about hockey other than the Oilers and Canadiens seem to carry the torch of having the best teams. 

[BroncoBruin]

1 minute ago, jsthomp2007 said:

Would the Bulls have won eight in a row if MJ hadn't decided to take two years off?  And if they had would they have been the best dynasty of any sport?  I always forget about hockey teams, I just don't know that much about hockey other than the Oilers and Canadiens seem to carry the torch of having the best teams. 

I think there’s a fatigue factor there that details them at some point. The Hakeem Rockets would have been their toughest Finals opponent. Another interesting hypothetical: if the Sonics trade for Pippen in 1994 as they almost did, does Jordan’s career end with only 3 titles? And how many do George Karl’s Sonics win? Definitely at least one.  

[broncosfan_101]

Just here to say that the 2019 Raptors run was probably the most fun I’ve ever had as a sports fan. And that I would die for KLOE.

[BroncoBruin]

There’s something so uniquely cool about Kawhi being a one-and-done champion in Toronto. I came, I saw, I conquered, I’m out. Outside of LeBron, nobody in the league has built a more interesting legacy in the past decade. From role player to LeBron stopper to Finals MVP to becoming a superstar to injury to fallout with the Spurs of all teams to one of the best years any player has ever had to leaving a title team to turning down guaranteed championships with the Lakers to joining the historically incompetent Clippers. Altogether it’s an incredible story. 

[BroncoBruin]

1 hour ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

Yeah I mean one thing that never comes up, is MJ still the goat if Scottie pippin wasn’t the most criminally underpaid player in NBA history? So much of the triangle ran through Scottie taking defenders away from MJ. 
 

Wilt and Russel were the team. Kind of like Lebron early in his career (the only difference is they won titles)

Phil and peak Scottie deserve a lot of credit for getting the best version of MJ, but even before Phil was there, MJ was an efficient 35 a game scorer and defensive demon. It wasn’t like he was just a shot chucker or anything, he was unstoppable pretty much from the beginning. 

[champ11]

2 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

There’s something so uniquely cool about Kawhi being a one-and-done champion in Toronto. I came, I saw, I conquered, I’m out. Outside of LeBron, nobody in the league has built a more interesting legacy in the past decade. From role player to LeBron stopper to Finals MVP to becoming a superstar to injury to fallout with the Spurs of all teams to one of the best years any player has ever had to leaving a title team to turning down guaranteed championships with the Lakers to joining the historically incompetent Clippers. Altogether it’s an incredible story. 

agreed for the most part. i kinda hate the clippers thing, though. that team is pretty much a mercenary team with no culture or interesting storylines. just the result of having the richest owner in sports and being located in the city that every NBA player lives in. the load management thing + PG essentially forcing his way there when he just signed the contract extension would take way more criticism if Kawhi was interesting enough to criticize 

[BroncoBruin]

15 minutes ago, champ11 said:

agreed for the most part. i kinda hate the clippers thing, though. that team is pretty much a mercenary team with no culture or interesting storylines. just the result of having the richest owner in sports and being located in the city that every NBA player lives in. the load management thing + PG essentially forcing his way there when he just signed the contract extension would take way more criticism if Kawhi was interesting enough to criticize 

Yeah it’s not like he’s trying to uplift the 2019 Knicks or anything miraculous like that. But it’s still the Clippers, they’ll have that losing aura until they win a title. Plus nobody and I mean absolutely nobody cares about the Clippers here. Really the biggest thing to his credit is getting offered guaranteed championships with LeBron and AD and turning it down, then joining a team in the same city to beat LeBron. That’s the stuff people who whine about the competitiveness of this era have been begging for. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by BroncoBruin

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said:

There’s something so uniquely cool about Kawhi being a one-and-done champion in Toronto. I came, I saw, I conquered, I’m out. Outside of LeBron, nobody in the league has built a more interesting legacy in the past decade. From role player to LeBron stopper to Finals MVP to becoming a superstar to injury to fallout with the Spurs of all teams to one of the best years any player has ever had to leaving a title team to turning down guaranteed championships with the Lakers to joining the historically incompetent Clippers. Altogether it’s an incredible story. 

56 minutes ago, champ11 said:

agreed for the most part. i kinda hate the clippers thing, though. that team is pretty much a mercenary team with no culture or interesting storylines. just the result of having the richest owner in sports and being located in the city that every NBA player lives in. the load management thing + PG essentially forcing his way there when he just signed the contract extension would take way more criticism if Kawhi was interesting enough to criticize 

The thing is, though - that was a Raptors team that doesn't get past Philly without Kawhi (not even talking game 7, its game 4 too), and of course, game 3, 5 & 6 MIL.   He earned that title full-on.    Even if TOR wins the East this year or next, it's with a crew that learned how to win with Kawhi showing them the way (the guys who are helping them now were nowhere as good last year - Lowry being the ONLY exception).

Edited April 20, 2020 by Broncofan
Fixed for context...

[champ11]

7 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

The thing is, though - that was a Raptors team that doesn't get past Philly without Kawhi (not even talking game 7, its game 4 too), and of course, game 3, 5 & 6 MIL.   He earned that title full-on.    Even if TOR wins the East this year or next, it's with a crew that learned how to win with Kawhi showing them the way (the guys who are helping them now were nowhere as good last year - Lowry being the ONLY exception).

I'm not sure I understand the response - I was talking about the Clippers 

[broncosfan_101]

53 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

There’s something so uniquely cool about Kawhi being a one-and-done champion in Toronto. I came, I saw, I conquered, I’m out. Outside of LeBron, nobody in the league has built a more interesting legacy in the past decade. From role player to LeBron stopper to Finals MVP to becoming a superstar to injury to fallout with the Spurs of all teams to one of the best years any player has ever had to leaving a title team to turning down guaranteed championships with the Lakers to joining the historically incompetent Clippers. Altogether it’s an incredible story. 

What I think gets under-appreciated about his run last year was that he KNEW he was blowing town that summer, and yet he was still ten toes for that Raps team. How many of us mail it in at work after we give our two weeks notice?

Not Kawhi. 

[jsthomp2007]

1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said:

I think there’s a fatigue factor there that details them at some point. The Hakeem Rockets would have been their toughest Finals opponent. Another interesting hypothetical: if the Sonics trade for Pippen in 1994 as they almost did, does Jordan’s career end with only 3 titles? And how many do George Karl’s Sonics win? Definitely at least one.  

That's right that Rockets team also Clyde and Hakeem; tough to beat.  But, I still think the Bulls, with MJ's will to win, would have toppled them.  And, who would have the Bulls gotten in return for Pippen?  Kemp, Payton?  Shrempt? 

[BroncoBruin]

Just now, broncosfan_101 said:

What I think gets under-appreciated about his run last year was that he KNEW he was blowing town that summer, and yet he was still ten toes for that Raps team. How many of us mail it in at work after we give our two weeks notice?

Not Kawhi. 

And he was injured too. He was struggling through those last couple series and just gutted it out. 

[Broncofan]

24 minutes ago, champ11 said:

I'm not sure I understand the response - I was talking about the Clippers 

I should have included @BroncoBruin's original point - just putting Leonard's overall place in context - fixed.  My bad there, busy at work.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Broncofan