Random Thoughts

[thebestever6]

7 minutes ago, germ-x said:

think in a few years Anthony Lynn will be in this conversation.  Another excellent leader more in the Tomlin/Harbaugh mold. 

I liked him as well but I'm already hearing firing rumblings

[Broncofan]

13 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

So, which ones comprise your top 10?

Tier 1

BB

Harbaugh

Reid

Vrabel

 

Small gap

Tier 2

Pederson (his play calling has really regressed, and falling in love with Hurts as a weapon in key situation dings him)

Payton (major knock against his love of Taysom Hill, and especially to point they paid him 16M for next year - for a gadget guy - and before ppl say it's the GM, Payton made it clear they had to keep him and overpaid horribly)

Shanahan

Larger gap

Tier 3

Lafleur (only reason I don't put him in Tier 2 is he's not done it for nearly as long)

McVay (his in-game predictability and conservative game calls when he doesn't have an elite D are big knocks, he doesn't adjust in-game nearly as well, so his novel attack O has been more easy to defend the last 2 years - full credit though for recognizing his O had to change to fit his OL personnel last year, though).

Gruden

 

The 2 guys I don't see at all who are close are Lynn & Rivera, and who I think are likely done with their teams after 2021 at latest.   Lynn's so good at many aspects of HC pre-game - but he's one of the worst in-game callers and management guys around.  He's literally cost them 2x already this year, and did so last 2 years.  He's just too much about not losing, rather than trying to win the game (punting on 4th and inches vs. KC, and running ball out there on 1st downs trying to protect lead, and running 15x on 1st down vs. NO when they averaged 2 YPC on 1st, and pass game success they had).    Rivera's been a fantastic guy at developing bad franchises - but his philosophy on O, and his loyalty to guys like Kyle Allen and Carolina pipeline days, it's going to do him in.  It's quickly looking outdated.

[BroncoBruin]

Haven’t seen Arians mentioned but I’d comfortably put him in the top 10.

[germ-x]

1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said:

Haven’t seen Arians mentioned but I’d comfortably put him in the top 10.

Had him in mine.  Arians was awesome in Arizona.

[AnAngryAmerican]

Good discussion.

In addition to the six I see as locks - Belichick, Reid, Carroll, Tomlin, Payton and Harbaugh - I would add Vrabel, Shanahan and Arians. The 10th is tricky as good arguments can be made for McVay, Pederson, Gruden and, IMO, Rivera. 

I really like what Matt LeFleur has done, if anyone remembers he was my top choice by far for us after we fired Vance. We didn’t even interview him and even if we had no way he takes this job over one where he can coach Aaron Rodgers. Can’t fault him for that but I also can’t put someone in my top 10 who is just 20-something games into his HC career. 

@Broncofan you don’t have Tomlin on your list. Omission by mistake or do you not like him? If it’s the latter I will vehemently disagree because I think Mike Tomlin is an outstanding football coach, both as a leader of men type and an in-game coach. He’s not known for some fancy scheme or doing anything revolutionary to change the game from an Xs and Os standpoint but I’d take him leading my team any day. 

[thebestever6]

17 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Good discussion.

In addition to the six I see as locks - Belichick, Reid, Carroll, Tomlin, Payton and Harbaugh - I would add Vrabel, Shanahan and Arians. The 10th is tricky as good arguments can be made for McVay, Pederson, Gruden and, IMO, Rivera. 

Doug p wins a superbowl with a backup qb and is passed on this list for Shanny Arians and Vrabel who have no Superbowls interesting.

[AnAngryAmerican]

31 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Doug p wins a superbowl with a backup qb and is passed on this list for Shanny Arians and Vrabel who have no Superbowls interesting.

If we’re going to make one ring the be-all, end-all, why not consider Mike McCarthy? He has a ring and multiple playoff berths. 

I think that Eagles Super Bowl win was a case of everything coming together perfectly at the right time. I’m not saying he is a crap HC but that was a perfect storm kind of situation. And to call Foles a “backup QB” like he’s Jeff Driskell or something is not an accurate reflection of the player or the situation he put in. I’d put Pederson top half, not top 10, right now, maybe he proves me wrong and if he does I won’t be shocked. 

Vrabel has been spectacular. He’s the one guy with New England ties who has distinguished himself and been his own man.

Kyle turned an entire franchise around. Yes he has Lynch and Peters but everything, and I mean everything, I have heard out of SF is it’s Kyle’s franchise and it’s he signs off on every move, even some of the day to day “paperwork” type stuff is done by the others. 

Arians is has brought a great deal of innovation to the game, has proven very adaptable and succeeded in multiple spots. Again, he doesn’t have a ring, and knocking him for it is fair. But I like him. 

[BroncoBruin]

1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Good discussion.

In addition to the six I see as locks - Belichick, Reid, Carroll, Tomlin, Payton and Harbaugh - I would add Vrabel, Shanahan and Arians. The 10th is tricky as good arguments can be made for McVay, Pederson, Gruden and, IMO, Rivera. 

I really like what Matt LeFleur has done, if anyone remembers he was my top choice by far for us after we fired Vance. We didn’t even interview him and even if we had no way he takes this job over one where he can coach Aaron Rodgers. Can’t fault him for that but I also can’t put someone in my top 10 who is just 20-something games into his HC career. 

@Broncofan you don’t have Tomlin on your list. Omission by mistake or do you not like him? If it’s the latter I will vehemently disagree because I think Mike Tomlin is an outstanding football coach, both as a leader of men type and an in-game coach. He’s not known for some fancy scheme or doing anything revolutionary to change the game from an Xs and Os standpoint but I’d take him leading my team any day. 

Tomlin is the most under-appreciated coach in the NFL. Worst record in 13 years is 8-8. He’s exactly what teams are hoping for when they try to get the “leader of men”. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by BroncoBruin

[Broncofan]

19 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Good discussion.

In addition to the six I see as locks - Belichick, Reid, Carroll, Tomlin, Payton and Harbaugh - I would add Vrabel, Shanahan and Arians. The 10th is tricky as good arguments can be made for McVay, Pederson, Gruden and, IMO, Rivera. 

I really like what Matt LeFleur has done, if anyone remembers he was my top choice by far for us after we fired Vance. We didn’t even interview him and even if we had no way he takes this job over one where he can coach Aaron Rodgers. Can’t fault him for that but I also can’t put someone in my top 10 who is just 20-something games into his HC career. 

@Broncofan you don’t have Tomlin on your list. Omission by mistake or do you not like him? If it’s the latter I will vehemently disagree because I think Mike Tomlin is an outstanding football coach, both as a leader of men type and an in-game coach. He’s not known for some fancy scheme or doing anything revolutionary to change the game from an Xs and Os standpoint but I’d take him leading my team any day. 

I'd put him around the 11-12 spot.  One thing I'll ding him for - their inability to change up their team philosophy during the peak of Bell/AB years.    They just stuck to the belief their zone D could beat NE year in and year out.   Leader of men, stability, guy who tries to win a game, I'd agree.   But for all the years that PIT was close, his background as the DB & DC pre-coaching, those decisions he had a ton of influence on.     FWIW I could have easily included him, but since I was over 10, I stopped there...

[germ-x]

7 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

If we’re going to make one ring the be-all, end-all, why not consider Mike McCarthy? He has a ring and multiple playoff berths. 

I think that Eagles Super Bowl win was a case of everything coming together perfectly at the right time. I’m not saying he is a crap HC but that was a perfect storm kind of situation. And to call Foles a “backup QB” like he’s Jeff Driskell or something is not an accurate reflection of the player or the situation he put in. I’d put Pederson top half, not top 10, right now, maybe he proves me wrong and if he does I won’t be shocked. 

Vrabel has been spectacular. He’s the one guy with New England ties who has distinguished himself and been his own man.

Kyle turned an entire franchise around. Yes he has Lynch and Peters but everything, and I mean everything, I have heard out of SF is it’s Kyle’s franchise and it’s he signs off on every move, even some of the day to day “paperwork” type stuff is done by the others. 

Arians is has brought a great deal of innovation to the game, has proven very adaptable and succeeded in multiple spots. Again, he doesn’t have a ring, and knocking him for it is fair. But I like him. 

This is where I disagree to an extent on Shanahan and McVay.  I don’t think either has been around long enough to be distinguished as anything more than glorified OC’s.  Each had made and blown a SB.  But they’ve also fielded some terrible teams, especially SF.  

It’s why I give Vrabel the nod over both in my rankings.  I don’t think he’s as innovative X and O wise as Shanahan or McVay (who are 2 of the brightest on the offensive side of the ball in football), but I also think he’s a far better HC with his decision making and ability to get the most out of lesser talent.  

It really is interesting the amount of HCs now a days that want complete control of one side of the ball.  I don’t think it’s always a bad thing, but I can certainly see drawbacks to it and unless you’re one of the elites (Belichick, Payton, Reid) I would honestly prefer the guy who gives up those duties and focuses on the team, like a Carroll, Tomlin, or Harbaugh. 

[germ-x]

Man, New England has to make the switch to Stidham don’t they?  I know NE doesn’t have the best of weapons, but Cam’s arm looks shot.  

[germ-x]

If Kingsbury didn’t have Kyler at QB he would’ve been fired last year.  Murray makes up for a HUGE amount of Kingsbury’s deficiencies as a play caller.  

Even with Murray’s ability to run everything they do is predictable and that shouldn’t happen with Murray’s talent.

[AKRNA]

So, I've been having lots of fun this year watching Bolles and also following his PFF ratings. They've been climbing weekly and have now hit the almost absurd # of 91.1. PFF has him as the highest rated OT in the NFL and almost 13 points higher than his draft counterpart Ryan Ramczyk.

After getting crucified for the last three years for my support of him I'm really pleased with a bit of vindication. Feels pretty good doesn't it @broncosfan_101.

[thebestever6]

6 hours ago, AKRNA said:

So, I've been having lots of fun this year watching Bolles and also following his PFF ratings. They've been climbing weekly and have now hit the almost absurd # of 91.1. PFF has him as the highest rated OT in the NFL and almost 13 points higher than his draft counterpart Ryan Ramczyk.

After getting crucified for the last three years for my support of him I'm really pleased with a bit of vindication. Feels pretty good doesn't it @broncosfan_101.

I still remember the chicago game like it was yesterday he deserves it

[BroncoBruin]

12 hours ago, AKRNA said:

So, I've been having lots of fun this year watching Bolles and also following his PFF ratings. They've been climbing weekly and have now hit the almost absurd # of 91.1. PFF has him as the highest rated OT in the NFL and almost 13 points higher than his draft counterpart Ryan Ramczyk.

After getting crucified for the last three years for my support of him I'm really pleased with a bit of vindication. Feels pretty good doesn't it @broncosfan_101.

You could always see it was possible. He had some great performances vs. premier pass rushers in his first couple years. It just felt like he was never going to get past  the mental hurdle of football. He makes it look pretty easy now, plays a more relaxed game. He’s made the commitment to be better, coaching is getting through and I think Ken Zampese working with Bolles on mental concepts last year also paid off. 

It’s awesome to see everything come together. Hopefully they can get a long term contract worked out soon. They’re in a position where they need to have either a Bolles or Simmons deal done by March so they can at least use the tag on the other player.