Odell Beckham and Giants agreed to a Mega 5 year deal

[FinneasGage]

man came close to getting that joakim noah money 

[evilflamingo]

12 hours ago, ET80 said:

Those aren't the only attributes that define physically gifted. In fact, I'd say short area quickness, hand strength and acceleration probably prove to be more important.

We've seen plenty of tall, fast WRs fail. But quick-off-the-line guys who can cut and change direction quickly with a strong set of hands? Usually those guys like last for a while.

I agree with the first dude though. Beckham is clearly not the most physically gifted receiver in today's NFL. Just looking at the most basic physical attributes, he's quite short, doesn't really have elite top-end speed or strength. If you were to go out into the world, you will find a lot more Odell Beckham-type physical specimens than you would, for example, Julio Jones-type specimens. 

And just out of interest, can you give me one guy you consider having "a strong set of hands" who isn't at least an above-average player? Players usually get labelled to have strong hands by making great contested catches and if you make great contested catches, you're probably quite good. But in reality, you probably have several players with hands that are just as strong, but they either lack the strength, knowledge of how to properly use their body, wingspan or whatever else that holds them back from making these type of catches and you wouldn't label them that way. 

[minutemancl]

14 hours ago, ninjapirate said:

How is a 5"11 receiver that runs a 4.44 the most physically gifted in the NFL? 

 

Talented? maybe.

 

Physically gifted? What are you smoking?

Speed and height aren't the only two "gifts" a receiver has. They may be the most obvious, but there is a whole lot more that goes into being a great wide receiver. Odell has got it all in truckloads, minus the height. He's exhibited it so many times. I've said it before, but there are a few guys I've seen play football that look like they were made in a lab to specifically to play a certain position. Julio Jones is one, Calais Campbell is another one, as is Chandler Jones. Odell is another.

Speed in shorts is not speed on the field. I'd take OBJ in pads against just about any other player in pads. I don't think he is the fastest, I'm sure he isn't, but he isn't far behind.

[ET80]

16 minutes ago, evilflamingo said:

And just out of interest, can you give me one guy you consider having "a strong set of hands" who isn't at least an above-average player?

Laquan Treadwell and Josh Doctson come to mind. Both were first round talents with vice grip-like hands coming out of college, but neither have been able to capitalize on it. 

We talked about him earlier, but I personally have Alshon Jeffrey just outside of the "above average" bracket - his primary strength is contested jump balls, and his hands are a big reason he's so good at it.

My point is that it is much more than a height/speed combo as it's being portrayed.

[11sanchez11]

19 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

Eff that. I would pay Tom Brady that much and let him win a SB for me with a bunch of pedestrian WRs and spend that other money I could else where. Cause they still have to pay for a QB. 

Is that an available option? Sign the Cardinals up if so.

[BAConrad]

13 hours ago, CWood21 said:

So you're telling me that you'd rather have Cousins at $30M than Rodgers at $35M?  

Where did @Jeezla say this?? 

 

13 hours ago, CWood21 said:

 

OBJ is better than Alshon by just about every way imaginable.  If you want to argue that the team is better off spending less on the position, I wouldn't argue too hard.  But I'd rather have OBJ at $18M/year than Alshon at $13M despite my opinion that spending crazy money on a WR is unwise.

So we just gonna use the simplest and laziest means to break down contracts? Because taking the AAV doesnt properly reflect any deal, let alone OBJ's or Jeffrey's. 

...4 years 52 million with 27 guaranteed vs 5 years 95 million with 65 guaranteed...

Is a much better way of comparing the deals. And in that case, its not hard to see why @Jeezla thinks that Jeffrey's contract continues to look better as we see more deals signed at the position. Especially considering how there was a LOT of people bashing that deal when it was announced.

Heck, I remember arguing with a few people about the WR market of this past offseason, and how I was bashed because I (literally even brought these guys up) said that Allen Robinson, DaVante Adams, Sammy Watkins, Brandin Cooks, among others, would all end up signing for either just as much or more than Jeffrey. 

Obviously OBJ and Jeffrey arent in the same breathe as far as how they rank among WRs in the league. Odell is top 3 in the NFL no doubt. Argument (though I have AB #1) could be made for the best.

Jeffrey is top 15(ish). But like my comrade said, he is still good enough to be the #1 on a SB winning team

[CWood21]

48 minutes ago, BAConrad said:

So we just gonna use the simplest and laziest means to break down contracts? Because taking the AAV doesnt properly reflect any deal, let alone OBJ's or Jeffrey's. 

...4 years 52 million with 27 guaranteed vs 5 years 95 million with 65 guaranteed...

Is a much better way of comparing the deals. And in that case, its not hard to see why @Jeezla thinks that Jeffrey's contract continues to look better as we see more deals signed at the position. Especially considering how there was a LOT of people bashing that deal when it was announced.

Heck, I remember arguing with a few people about the WR market of this past offseason, and how I was bashed because I (literally even brought these guys up) said that Allen Robinson, DaVante Adams, Sammy Watkins, Brandin Cooks, among others, would all end up signing for either just as much or more than Jeffrey. 

Obviously OBJ and Jeffrey arent in the same breathe as far as how they rank among WRs in the league. Odell is top 3 in the NFL no doubt. Argument (though I have AB #1) could be made for the best.

Jeffrey is top 15(ish). But like my comrade said, he is still good enough to be the #1 on a SB winning team

Until we have the actual breakdown of the OBJ contract, I don't think we can actually effectively evaluate that contract.  What if the majority of the $65M guaranteed comes in the first few years as opposed to the final few years?  What happens if the Giants actually front-load the deal?  There's right now, no real honest way to evaluate the contract of OBJ until we see the structure.  Alshon Jeffery got 52% of his contract guaranteed where as OBJ got 68%.  Seems about right given that OBJ is significantly better than Jeffery.  You prefer to look at guarantees, which is part of the evaluation.  But the AAV is absolutely a legitimate way to look at deals.

[minutemancl]

31 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Until we have the actual breakdown of the OBJ contract, I don't think we can actually effectively evaluate that contract.  What if the majority of the $65M guaranteed comes in the first few years as opposed to the final few years?  What happens if the Giants actually front-load the deal?  There's right now, no real honest way to evaluate the contract of OBJ until we see the structure.  Alshon Jeffery got 52% of his contract guaranteed where as OBJ got 68%.  Seems about right given that OBJ is significantly better than Jeffery.  You prefer to look at guarantees, which is part of the evaluation.  But the AAV is absolutely a legitimate way to look at deals.

Initial reports are that it is more front loaded. $20 million annually over the first 3 years. 

It is also worth pointing out that this is an extension. We get him this year for his ~8 million 5th year tender, then his 5 year contract kicks in. Gettleman said "we got him until he's 108".

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

Initial reports are that it is more front loaded. $20 million annually over the first 3 years. 

It is also worth pointing out that this is an extension. We get him this year for his ~8 million 5th year tender, then his 5 year contract kicks in. Gettleman said "we got him until he's 108".

It's interesting to see how it's structured since they can essentially use that 5th year option as another year to add salary to.  When they sign him to a SB, instead of it being prorated over the new 5 years the SB actually prorates during that 5th year option and the first four years of the new deal.  It'll actually raise his cap hit for this season, but long-term it saves them money.

[Jeezla]

Speaking of Alshon, you can already chalk him up for 14 games at best this season. Expected to return in week 3. Is OBJ worth 5 mill a season more than that? Yes, but I still think thats a lot of capital to invest in a position that doesn't seem to translate to sb w's.

[tab]

wasnt super impressed with him playoffs 2016. If Odell is gonna be healthy and out there making plays, I dont really have a problem with this contract but on the flip side, I can see this becoming a Dez situation down the road possibly

 

but I imagine the Giants will want to be taking a QB at some point in the next few years, so it's better to have a guy like OBJ on the roster when that happens

[game3525]

9 hours ago, minutemancl said:

Speed and height aren't the only two "gifts" a receiver has.

Yeah,  I would argue quickness is the most important attribute for a receiver. That is what makes AB so great, same for Beckham. It just impossible to defend guys who can explode out of their routes so quickly. 

[incognito_man]

This should keep NYG off the "worries me" list for awhile 

[TheKillerNacho]

5 hours ago, Jeezla said:

Speaking of Alshon, you can already chalk him up for 14 games at best this season. Expected to return in week 3. Is OBJ worth 5 mill a season more than that? Yes, but I still think thats a lot of capital to invest in a position that doesn't seem to translate to sb w's.

Tbh, the only position that has a strong correlation with SB wins is Quarterback... all but a couple in the last two decades has had one playing at an elite level. The other positions of strength varied. Some SB winners had great edge rushers, some have not. Some have had a good rushing attack, some have not. Some have had a great secondary, some have not. Some have had an elite OL, some have not. While I agree with the notion WR isn't the most important position, it certainly does have value. WR who can get open and their QB trusts creates chunk plays. Statistics have shown that the team with the most chunk plays almost always wins the game.