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Deshone Kizer: Present & Future Career Prospects


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This thread used to be the "2018 QB Options What to do if Kizer Balls out or is Meh"  thread (Great title I know)

Now, that we know Kizer was meh...we already have enough 2018 FA threads so I'll turn this one into something else.

Can't really think of anything (any suggestions?). but I'll just throw out something as to prevent any confusion regarding the different FA threads.

@brownie man Let me know if you think this clashes with the "Do you know enough about Kizer.." thread you started. I can always change it I honestly couldn't think of what else to change this title to.

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Unlike many, I actually think that Kizer still can be QB1 in this league But he has a long way to go.

Even through all the issues, his flashes are as good as anyone in the league.

He needs to work on accuracy and his vision.

His poise seemed really bad throughout this season in key moments, but with added knowledge and confidence through mechanics the sky is still the limit for him as a prospect.

It's a big summer for him.

He might not have it, or he might be 5 years away, but I see a prolonged career for him even if it isn't with the Browns.

If Ryan Fitzpatrick can have a long career why cant Deshone.

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I'm very interested to see how this year plays out.  This could be one of the biggest years in our franchise since the return.  IF Kizer shows any sort of ability to be the guy, we would have to expect they will rely on his abilities.  If Kizer is cast aside then I would expect we draft someone who Hue views as a sure thing.  Right now, from what I've read and seen from camp, Kizer looks like the best QB on the team. 

That being said disaster planning isn't a bad approach.  The one player on that list I think could excel in a change of scenery is Stafford.  I think the domes help Teddy, who I was a huge fan of coming out, and Brees, who is getting up there in age.  I expect the others to be resigned with the exception of maybe Bradford and Anderception.

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20 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Idk why y'all won't accept he's the guy

hes always been our franchise QB

just accept it and enjoy 

you know I've been as high on Kizer as anyone on the site, but as El Brownso pointed out "dizaster planning" is often the most prudent option; even if Kizer shows himself to be the guy an injury or major regression can put this franchise back where it's been forever searching for a QB.

That's why in my mind no matter what Kizer or anyone else does we have to use our draft and/or salary capital to get another one b/c we won't be in this position with multiple picks and/or major cap space forever.

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If Kizer, Kessler, Brock can't play, I think our situation will work itself out in the form of a rookie QB from one of a better QB draft class. I can think of 3 QBs that have a ton of promise. I hoping we won't need one. Image if we had the luxury of being able to draft the best offensive WR in the draft or BPA. SS, FS, MLB all might be defensive positions of need. Getting way off topic here, we might just take the best OT in the draft. Have the kid play RT because Erving sucks and have an insurance policy for when THomas retired. Just thoughts. 

that is all

Mastercheddaar

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I think that if Kizer wins the job, he can have a very successful year.

Why?  Two words.  Dak Prescott.

Prescott came in with minimal expectations, and was thrust into the starters role because of his play, as well as the health of Tony Romo.  He came into a situation where he had one of the best (if not the best offensive line in the league.)

He had a bell cow running back who was able to have great success against opponents by making defenses respect the run, which gave Prescott opportunities to throw the ball to a young but very solid group of receivers, led by Dez Bryant.

Is Kizer a better prospect than Prescott?  I don't know, but he's got potentially one of the best o-lines in the league playing in front of him.  He has a skill set that, should he win the job, would allow him to have some success.  He's got a bell cow RB that is in his contract year.  We've got a great deal of inexperience with our receiving corps, but there is potential for whoever is QB to have some success throwing to Britt, Coleman, Njoku, DeValve, Duke J.

Are we going 12-4 this year like the Cowboys did last year?  I hope so, but it is highly unlikely.  

 

Truth be told, with the arrows that Sashi has in his quiver next year, he can do pretty much what ever the hell he wants.  If Kizer looks like he could be THE guy, we find a groomable LT, WR, CB and S.  

I'm going to take the Timbuk 3 approach.  

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I don't think you're even close on Jimmy G's price tag. Especially because there are so many guys who might end up being available. I think he ends up getting something a little better than Glennon money (14M per for 3 years). I'd be all over that price tag IF Kizer flops.

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To begin, I have no reason at this point (which is incredibly early on) to feel like Kizer doesn't have the tangibles to be a franchise QB, so that should be taken into consideration with my responses.....

If Kizers balls out - go into the season with him at QB1, Kessler at QB2, and Hogan / day 2 or 3 rookie vying for QB3. Stop trying to hedge bets and go all in on him like Philly has done with Wentz.

If Kizer comes out of the season with *question marks, BUT had less than 8 starts - I think we should pass on drafting a QB in round 1 (I know, I know, this upcoming draft will probably be our best chance at one) fill in other weak spots, and go another route.... trying to re-structure Brock to a much more reasonable deal. To be honest, I'm not even sure if that is possible and him being cut is fait accompli, but it would be nice to have some continuity and I think as far as backups go, he and Kessler would be pretty nice. If Brock is cut after the '17 season, then I go the same route as above - ride with Kizer as QB1, Kessler at QB2 and Hogan or a day 2 QB at QB3 - as long as he is truly still a question and we're not just in denial that he sucks, I'm fine with the gamble.

If Kizer has *questions marks BUT had 8 or more starts: draft another top prospect in '18, go into the season as Kizer QB1, Kessler QB2 and rookie QB3. We'd most likely be in the same carousel we're in right now early on, but at least there would be another heir apparent waiting in the wings for his chance if Kizer falls flat early in the season.

If Kizer completely flames out: go the Seattle route by drafting a top QB prospect and signing (or trading with NE after their presumptive tag and trade) Jimmy G - the cream will rise to the top in training camp and frankly that's what Hue and the front-office would need to keep their jobs.

Obviously the biggest gamble is for the second scenario because Kessler is your back-up plan, but like I said: I think Kizer has the tangibles to succeed so I'm willing to go down that road with another year under his belt, while stacking up elsewhere.

*When I say "has question marks", I imagine that to mean he looks like Wentz did over the course of the first half of the season: has some games to get people hyped but has some other games that are headscratchingly bad. No trends are established, he just looks inconsistent. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, freakygeniuskid said:

I don't think you're even close on Jimmy G's price tag. Especially because there are so many guys who might end up being available. I think he ends up getting something a little better than Glennon money (14M per for 3 years). I'd be all over that price tag IF Kizer flops.

Nahhh

Jimmy is gonna get then NBA max unless NE resigns him 

if Matt Cassell can fetch two 2nd round picks Jimmy G will get John Wall money

 

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2 hours ago, freakygeniuskid said:

I don't think you're even close on Jimmy G's price tag. Especially because there are so many guys who might end up being available. I think he ends up getting something a little better than Glennon money (14M per for 3 years). I'd be all over that price tag IF Kizer flops.

Yeah...I definitely could be wrong on Jimmy G's price tag and I hope you're right, but the my thought is that's what it would take to get Jimmy to Cleveland.

Nowadays you can structure a contract so it's really a 3 year deal or less like Osweiler and the Texans. Ultimately, that's what it would take imo to get Jimmy G to come to Cleveland as opposed to let's say the Vikings or some other franchise/front office/head coach with a winning pedigree.

I really meant "highest QB in the league" as more an approximation of the price; however, I still think something along the lines of the year's end top 5 QB franchise tag price (average the top 5 salaries at his position) will be what it takes to secure Jimmy G

My thought was that Brees and Stafford sign a lucrative extension let's say mid-point of the season (teams with franchise QBs like that want to appease the head guy and keep the train moving along before playoff contention and late season divisional games come along). That sets the market based on this league year before the next salary cap numbers come in. There will be an increase in the cap at the end of the season before FA as there always is; therefore, the highest paid QB under this league year will be at least 5 million dollars a year less than the highest paid QB under next years cap even if the contracts are comparable

Then, what is the price tag that the Browns would have to pay to get Jimmy G to not go to a better team or say Mike Shannahan? My answer is that we'd have to make him the highest QB in the league or near it.

The Patriots might franchise him and basically make him one of the top 5 highest paid QBs in the league just so they don't lose him as an UFA. And it wouldn't be a bad move.

 

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1 hour ago, brownie man said:

Nahhh

Jimmy is gonna get then NBA max unless NE resigns him 

if Matt Cassell can fetch two 2nd round picks Jimmy G will get John Wall money

 

I think Jimmy gets more money if he is traded than if he hits free agency. If you give up a high pick for him you have to extend him pretty much at whatever price it takes so you didn't just waste a pick. There could be a bidding war in free agency but teams will stop bidding at a certain point because they can go another route at no loss to them.

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2 hours ago, BwickRedux said:

To begin, I have no reason at this point (which is incredibly early on) to feel like Kizer doesn't have the tangibles to be a franchise QB, so that should be taken into consideration with my responses.....

If Kizers balls out - go into the season with him at QB1, Kessler at QB2, and Hogan / day 2 or 3 rookie vying for QB3. Stop trying to hedge bets and go all in on him like Philly has done with Wentz.

If Kizer comes out of the season with *question marks, BUT had less than 8 starts - I think we should pass on drafting a QB in round 1 (I know, I know, this upcoming draft will probably be our best chance at one) fill in other weak spots, and go another route.... trying to re-structure Brock to a much more reasonable deal. To be honest, I'm not even sure if that is possible and him being cut is fait accompli, but it would be nice to have some continuity and I think as far as backups go, he and Kessler would be pretty nice. If Brock is cut after the '17 season, then I go the same route as above - ride with Kizer as QB1, Kessler at QB2 and Hogan or a day 2 QB at QB3 - as long as he is truly still a question and we're not just in denial that he sucks, I'm fine with the gamble.

If Kizer has *questions marks BUT had 8 or more starts: draft another top prospect in '18, go into the season as Kizer QB1, Kessler QB2 and rookie QB3. We'd most likely be in the same carousel we're in right now early on, but at least there would be another heir apparent waiting in the wings for his chance if Kizer falls flat early in the season.

If Kizer completely flames out: go the Seattle route by drafting a top QB prospect and signing (or trading with NE after their presumptive tag and trade) Jimmy G - the cream will rise to the top in training camp and frankly that's what Hue and the front-office would need to keep their jobs.

Obviously the biggest gamble is for the second scenario because Kessler is your back-up plan, but like I said: I think Kizer has the tangibles to succeed so I'm willing to go down that road with another year under his belt, while stacking up elsewhere.

*When I say "has question marks", I imagine that to mean he looks like Wentz did over the course of the first half of the season: has some games to get people hyped but has some other games that are headscratchingly bad. No trends are established, he just looks inconsistent. 

Strong and thoughtful points @BwickRedux

I like a lot of you're logic and almost completely agree with you except for what to do in the case of the 1. Kizer balls out and 2. If Kizer has *questions marks BUT had 8 or more starts options.

I don't think we should do like the Eagles and go all in like they did Wentz b/c they did not have alternative options and we do. They did not have the cap space and the draft capital we do and there were not the available free agents available QB-wise that will potentially be available this upcoming year; therefore, after a promising and up and down season from Wentz...they did not pursue a QB in free agency or the draft. They were smart to do just that as they.

But the coming together of this type of draft capital, cap space, and available winning/starter level FA QBs comes along once in a blue moon. We won't see this opportunity for another 10 years. In fact, it took us 3 years just to build to this point.

As a result, we have the ability to protect ourselves from QB catastrophic injury and QB regressions (a la holding on to Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson until they were worth belly button lint).

The only things we risk are 1. Kizers ego and leadership being hurt if he thinks he has to compete with say a Sam Bradford or something, 2. The opposite could be true for whatever QB we bring in feeling the pressure of Kizer, 3. The team being split in the locker room over the QB room leader, and 4. Taking a major cap hit for 3 years due to the size of the QBs contract.

All those things can be challenging to get through but to me it's better to work through those things then to go all in on one QB and be back to square 1 if regression or catastrophic injury happens.

That's why I think AJ Mccaron or a recovering Bridgewater would be prudent options as Kizer can take the lead role but we have a winning QB for cheap waiting in the wings. Kizer, Mccaron, and Cody Kessler/Kevin Hogan might be the move to make.

I don't Brock comes back to a situation where he knowingly lost the starting QB spot at some point. He likely won't give up on his dream to be a starting QB and will likely seek release (we might just do it anyway) to further pursue that goal of starting.

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4 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

I think Jimmy gets more money if he is traded than if he hits free agency. If you give up a high pick for him you have to extend him pretty much at whatever price it takes so you didn't just waste a pick. There could be a bidding war in free agency but teams will stop bidding at a certain point because they can go another route at no loss to them.

I think even on the open market he'll get way more than what Brock got. The Jimmy G hype is unreal 

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