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Kamalei Correa traded to Titans for 6th round pick


M.10.E

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Just now, M.10.E said:

What's more likely, three coaches aligned on the wrong decision, or a Ravens second round pick was a bust. I'm going with the latter. Why didn't the Ravens move Judon to ILB? Because he was good at OLB, unlike Correa. 

PS: Gaither was a mental bum.

More likely it was one coach overruling over coaches. Correa moved to ILB before he even got the chance to be a bust at OLB.

And yeah Gaither was a mental bum but when he was happy he was great. Oher was better at RT, Gaither was better at LT, but Harbaugh decided to screw that entire thing up and it ended up starting a downward spiral on the OL.

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3 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

What's more likely, three coaches aligned on the wrong decision, or a Ravens second round pick was a bust. I'm going with the latter. Why didn't the Ravens move Judon to ILB? Because he was good at OLB, unlike Correa. 

 

PS: Gaither was a mental bum.

Not to defend the decision to move him, but there IS a middle ground there. The other young and established OLBs were more promising, but they still liked Correa and wanted to get him on the field the quickest possible way. Not a good decision with hindsight, of course. 

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Blaming our coaching staff for Gaither is just a bad take. Dude had all the talent in the world but didn't love football. Correa just isn't good, like Elam. FO whiffed there, it happens. Stop trying to find excuses for players sucking.

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2 hours ago, M.10.E said:

Yup. Getting anything for him opens up a roster spot plus hopefully another dart throw in next years draft. Had very little shot of playing ahead of those guys + Smith this year.

With as tight as our depth already is, and losing relatively so few guys in FA this upcoming offseason, I hope we use any extra picks to maneuver for targets. Situation could obviously change, though. 

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52 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

What's more likely, three coaches aligned on the wrong decision, or a Ravens second round pick was a bust. I'm going with the latter. Why didn't the Ravens move Judon to ILB? Because he was good at OLB, unlike Correa. 

 

PS: Gaither was a mental bum.

Building off this, Correa had neither the size nor the length to be a top-end NFL edge player. I actually don’t mind what they tried to do with him, it just didn’t work out. 

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48 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

Blaming our coaching staff for Gaither is just a bad take. Dude had all the talent in the world but didn't love football. Correa just isn't good, like Elam. FO whiffed there, it happens. Stop trying to find excuses for players sucking.

Not to mention, Gaither flamed our for multiple other teams after he left Baltimore. His athleticism and talent were worth the attempt, but you can’t blame the Ravens for him not working out. 

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Gaither should not be mentioned in the same sentence as Correa. That guy didn't bother and once he got paid he was mentally out of the NFL.

Correa have by all accounts been a stellar professional who we just didn't give a good chance to succeed. Maybe he wouldn't be a premier pass rusher, but he could have been a great rotational guy who was also a great special teamer. Those guys can be worthy of second contracts.

Now he is a flat out bust with the Ravens and a part of a history that really reflects back bad on Ozzie and company.

We might have gotten solid play from other early and late round picks, but we have missed on basically all 1-2 round picks besides Mosley since the Superb Owl victory.

We have a team with a lot of B's and C's, while Steelers and other teams which beat us have A and A+ players which make the deciding play late in the season. Those teams might have some D's on the team as well, but we haven't been able to expose those players.

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Gaither was only mentioned as a situation where the coaches made a terrible decision with players (in that case, it was Oher and Gaither) that impacted the roster out of sheer stupidity. Forcing Oher to play LT even though the OL was completely set with him at RT ultimately killed Oher's career and ran Gaither out of town as well.

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Correa had neither the size nor the length to be a top-end NFL edge player

@sp6488 6'2 250 lbs isn't the size to be a top-end NFL edge player? What?

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6 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

 

@sp6488 6'2 250 lbs isn't the size to be a top-end NFL edge player? What?

Yes, that is what I said.  I've never seen Correa listed at 250, always in the 240s tops.  Anyway, looking at the top-10 sack producers from 2017 (not a perfect comparison, but as good of criteria as any for generating a list):

Chandler Jones 6'5" 265 lbs
Calais Campbell 6'8" 300 lbs
Demarcus Lawrence 6'3" 265 lbs
Everson Griffen 6'3" 273 lbs
Cameron Jordan 6'4" 287 lbs
Ryan Kerrigan 6'4" 259 lbs
Joey Bosa 6'5" 280 lbs
Ezekiel Ansah 6'5" 275 lbs
Cameron Heyward 6'5" 295 lbs
Yannick Ngakoue 6'2" 246 lbs

Ngakoue obviously is the closest in terms of height/weight to Correa (YN has longer arms FWIW), but see this from YN's NFL draft profile:

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BOTTOM LINE Lacks the desired height and length from an edge player, but does have the athleticism and production teams like. A deep dive into the tape reveals very few "instant wins sacks" and his short strides prevent him from threatening the edge as often as you might expect. While Ngakoue appears to have the traits of an upfield player, he was asked to set edges at Maryland. His production from 2015 will intrigue teams, but he is a work in progress who needs a more developed skill set as a pass rusher if he wants to become a factor in the NFL as a starter.

For good measure, let's look at the 5 presumptive edge guys to make the Ravens roster in 2018:

Terrell Suggs 6'3" 265 lbs
Matt Judon 6'3" 261 lbs
Tim Williams 6'3" 252 lbs
Za'Darius Smith 6'4" 272 lbs
Tyus Bowser 6'3" 242 lbs

Now, Tyus Bowser is similar in height/weight, but again, he has a significant length advantage and was a top performer in the 40, vertical, broad jump and 3 cone (thus elite athlete).

If you look at ILBs, Correa's measurements are more in line there than they are with prototypical edge guys (who are typically more in the 260+ range).  It obviously didn't work out. but it's not like it's completely unprecedented moving guys from other positions to ILB when their athletic profile fits (Tedy Bruschi** and Brian Urlacher, for example).  

**Pretty good example

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Prior to the NFL Draft, Bruschi was invited to play in the East West Shrine Bowl Game.

The New England Patriots selected Bruschi in the third round (86th overall) of the 1996 NFL Draft. Coming into the draft he was listed at 6'0 250 pounds and was considered too small to be a defensive end but was a good size to be a linebacker, which is the position that New England coaches moved him.

 

This isn't to say it's impossible to be an NFL-level edge player at Correa's size.  My point is that it's somewhat logical to consider moving him to LB (at least it wasn't stupid in and of itself) where he is more of a fit physically and let him use some of his gifts there.  Biggest problem seems to be that he never improved against the run from the inside backer position.  Sometimes things don't work out.  Honestly, he would probably be able to stick around as an OLB at least through the end of his rookie deal if we weren't so deep at the position.

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It's important to remember that Kamalei Correa is a bust for our team, not a bust in general.

Go ask Titans fans about Kevin Dodd or Raider fans about Jihad Ward. Those are two legit busts from the '16 2nd round among others, and Dodd is a major reason why the Titans had to make this deal.

This preseason Correa showed the skill set of a 3rd-4th round pass rusher and still has room to grow as a player. He isn't a bad player or a universal bust. 

It sucks we burned a 2nd on him, but ultimately the goal is to use the draft to build your team. Higher picks give you a more valuable shot at a larger pool of talent, but it's impossible for a franchise to hit on every pick. The team wanted another promising pass rusher and EDGE piece, and they got one. It just came in the form of 5th Round pick Matt Judon and not our 2nd round pick. An unlikely scenario but a welcomed one. No one can argue that Judon wouldn't have been worth a 2nd round pick or higher either.

We drafted Correa to be a pass rusher with upside, which he is. Stalling his progression with a conversion attempt is the real error here. All things considered Ozzie did his job, he gave the team a young pass rusher with some promise. Ozzie wasn't the one who made the decision to play Correa at ILB, we know that much. Dumervil and Suggs were old, ZDS was still growing, can't blame Ozzie for trying to put another player in the pipeline. Boy, would hindsight have come in handy though. As it always would, when it comes to the Draft.

The Jaguars traded pick #38 and #146 to us in order to move up and select Myles Jack. We turned that 146th pick into Matt Judon. What hurts though is not picking Michael Thomas or Deion Jones with the eventual 42nd pick, obviously. We traded down again 4 spots after the initial deal with the Jaguars so the Dolphins could select Xavien Howard. They gave us the 107th pick and we turned that pick into one Chris Moore. 

Ozzie turned the 36th pick of the 2016 draft into Kamalei Correa, Matt Judon, and Chris Moore. 

With our other picks he selected: Ronnie Stanley, Bronson Kaufusi, Tavon Young, Alex Lewis, Willie Henry, Kenneth Dixon, Keenan Reynolds, and Maurice Canady.

The top UDFAs he signed after the draft: Michael Pierce, Patrick Onwuasor, Matt Skura, and Will Lutz.

Something else to note is the 171st pick in the 5th Round of that draft was Alex Collins, who we signed 3 days after he was cut. 

Ozzie worked the 2016 class like a corner hoe, put some respect on his name lol.

Also a little side note: Bronson Kaufusi was pick #70, Yannick Ngakoue was pick #69. In the following draft we selected pass rushers in the 2nd and 3rd back to back. My guess is Yannick there from ol' Maryland could've been staying in state had he been on the board. 

Another little side note: This draft was the start of the Raven's quest to nail down a young elite corner. They tried to trade up for Jalen Ramsey but the Cowboys were scared they were going to take Elliot and wouldn't deal. Then in the 2017 draft we tried to deal up for Marshon Lattimore but couldn't get it done. Leading us to select the eventual best of the 3 Marlon Humphrey :ph34r:.

We tried to steal Jalen Ramsey from the Jags in the 1st, but ended up with Ronnie Stanley. We traded the 2nd Round pick to the Jags they used to select Myles Jack, and used the pick they traded us to select Matt Judon. Then it's highly likely we were one pick away from spoiling their young core by picking Yannick in the 3rd. Then in the following draft still needing an elite corner, we drafted Marlon Humphrey in the 1st. An ace pass rusher in the 3rd in Tim Williams. Finally in the 2018 Draft, with the conversion attempt of Correa into an ILB not working out. We drafted a LB who excels in coverage from UCLA, Kenny Young.

What it all leads to-
 

Ravens: S- Eric Weddle(33yo), Tony Jefferson(26yo), Chuck Clark(23yo), Anthony Levine(31yo), DeShon Elliot(21yo)

Jaguars: S- Tashaun Gipson(28yo), Barry Church(30yo), Ronnie Harrison(21yo)

Ravens: CB- Jimmy Smith(30yo), Marlon Humphrey(22yo), Tavon Young(24yo), Brandon Carr(32yo), Maurice Canady(24yo), 

Jaguars: CB- AJ Bouye(27yo), Jalen Ramsey(24yo), DJ Hayden(28yo)

Ravens: LB- CJ Mosley(26yo) AP, Kenny Young(24yo) UCLA-CS

Jaguars: LB- Telvin Smith(27yo) AP, Myles Jack(23yo) UCLA-CS

Ravens: EDGE- Terrell Suggs(36yo), Matt Judon(26yo), Tyus Bowser(23yo), Tim Williams(25yo), Za'Darius Smith(26yo)

Jaguars: EDGE- Yannick Ngakoue(23yo), Dante Fowler(24yo)

Ravens: DI- Brent Urban(27yo) 6'7-295, Brandon Williams(29yo), Michael Pierce(26yo), Willie Henry(24yo), Chris Wormley(25yo), Zach Sieler(23yo)

Jaguars: DI- Calais Campbell(32yo) 6'8-300, Malik Jackson(28yo), Marcell Dareus(28yo), Taven Bryan(22yo)

 

I took a look at this for fun and there were some interesting comparisons. Each team has the shutdown duo at CB and an All-Pro LB with a coverage specialist running mate from UCLA. Ngakoue and Williams both being pass rush specialists drafted in the 3rd jumped out at me. Both team's most disruptive DI being a 6'7+ behemoth stood out, as did the 21 year old safety from this year's draft each team has in the chamber. 

What also jumps out is how little rope Wink has this year. Take advantage of the insane talent we have on defense, or get fired immediately. This season's slogan. 

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Correa is just not a good football player. That's the story. He's had ONE GOOD PRESEASON GAME against backups in his 2ish years, yet you all think it's the coaching staffs fault he's not good/playing. Unreal.

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49 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

Correa is just not a good football player. That's the story. He's had ONE GOOD PRESEASON GAME against backups in his 2ish years, yet you all think it's the coaching staffs fault he's not good/playing. Unreal.

Wow. Hey lunatic, why join a forum to discuss a team/sport if you don't want to deal in reality? Why not just imagine you're posting instead? You'll find more success.

Fact- Kamalei Correa played OLB/EDGE in college

Fact- We converted him to ILB

Fact- When moved back to his natural position(OLB) we immediately saw effective play from him

Do you think Kamalei had the authority to convert himself to an ILB, or do you think maybe it was the coaching staff?

You're just highlighting your own ignorance/stupidity. Our last game against the Dolphins was a strong game for Kamalei where he had multiple pressure events and split a sack. He also enjoyed some successful reps against Laremy Tunsil, the Dolphins starting Left Tackle.

When Michael Pierce had strong performances in the preseason and earned a spot on the team, was that meaningless? How about Matt Judon? Or any of the other countless players who parlayed preseason success into a roster spot and eventually regular season success? I'm tired of these stupid "Regular Joe" takes from the fan base.

Why was Marlon Humphrey not playing over Brandon Carr last year? Was it because he wasn't good? Or was that maybe a coaching decision?

Why is Chris Moore not starting over Michael Crabtree, John Brown, and Willie Snead? Is he a bad player? Or is he maybe just behind some more established players on the depth chart?

 

The old "If hwe was gude he'd be startin" drivel is one of Football Hackery's lowest hanging fruits. Congratulations. 

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SAW EFFECTIVE PLAY? WHERE? ONE PRESEASON GAME AGAINST BACKUPS?!!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

Michael Pierce and Matthew Judon made plays thus forcing the coaching staff to play them. Chris Moore still gets on the field regardless of who's in front of him, Correa doesnt. Humphrey was a rookie who started playing more as the year went on.

 

I can't believe this. This is BANANAS.

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