FinneasGage Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said: Even the long time argument that McCarthy made Rodgers doesn't hold when Brohm, Tolzien, Harrell, Callahan, Williams, Hill and now Hundley haven't developed into anything. McCarthy's greatest success outside Rodgers is Matt Flynn. yeah i definitely agree that mccarthy is no qb whisperer like some give him the credit for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFM18 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 9 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Take away any franchise's QB position, and they're going to suffer. Unless you're the Eagles and getting insane production out of Nick Foles, you're going to suffer if you lose your franchise QB. In the 12 years that McCarthy has been HC, they've had two losing seasons. Pete Carroll has had 2 losing seasons 8 years. 12 > 8... Unless you're Bill Belichick. Still went 11-5 without a whole season of TB12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 24 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Take away any franchise's QB position, and they're going to suffer. Unless you're the Eagles and getting insane production out of Nick Foles, you're going to suffer if you lose your franchise QB. In the 12 years that McCarthy has been HC, they've had two losing seasons. Pete Carroll has had 2 losing seasons 8 years. 12 > 8... The Vikings went 13-3 with a career backup QB last year. Some coaches's success are a product of their QB's play, like Mike McCarthy. I'd take Carroll over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 19 minutes ago, PFM18 said: Unless you're Bill Belichick. Still went 11-5 without a whole season of TB12. Yeah but Belichick is on a whole different planet from McCarthy. Maybe every coach... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said: The Vikings went 13-3 with a career backup QB last year. Some coaches's success are a product of their QB's play, like Mike McCarthy. I'd take Carroll over him. Who had a career year. Do you think Keenum is going to come even close to replicating those numbers? HELL NO! I don't even think the biggest Broncos' homer would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFM18 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 1 minute ago, SteelKing728 said: Yeah but Belichick is on a whole different planet from McCarthy. Maybe every coach... No doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 35 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I'd make the argument that Brett Hundley was better than Christian Hackenberg was in their final years at their respective schools. And there's a HUGE difference between investing a 2nd round pick like was with Hackenberg and a 5th round pick. As for your list, Josh Allen is the Bills' #2 QB. If you have Nathan Peterman as top 2 on your DC and you're a HC, you deserve to get fired on the spot. McCown was signed as the starting QB. The rest of your list are all guys who you could argue could be better than Hundley. None again are demonstrably better than Hundley. But thanks for playing. It's literally an arbitrary list you've made. No, I'd take any of those guys over Hundley..even Peterman, who you made a judgment based on 1 game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFM18 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: Who had a career year. Do you think Keenum is going to come even close to replicating those numbers? HELL NO! I don't even think the biggest Broncos' homer would. You'd be right on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 1 minute ago, SteelKing728 said: No, I'd take any of those guys over Hundley..even Peterman, who you made a judgment based on 1 game. Wow. Of all the takes you can make, you took that one. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Brett+Hundley&player_id1_select=Brett+Hundley&fromyear_1=2017&toyear_1=2018&player_id1=HundBr00&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Nathan+Peterman&player_id2_select=Nathan+Peterman&fromyear_2=2017&toyear_2=2018&player_id2=PeteNa00&idx=players Putting aside the SSS concerns, there isn't a single statistic that supports Peterman > Hundley. None. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Who had a career year. Do you think Keenum is going to come even close to replicating those numbers? HELL NO! I don't even think the biggest Broncos' homer would. It helped Keenum in having a coach who's whole game plan isn't based on hoping his starting QB plays like an all time great to even have a chance of winning a game, unlike some other coaches out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Wow. Of all the takes you can make, you took that one. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Brett+Hundley&player_id1_select=Brett+Hundley&fromyear_1=2017&toyear_1=2018&player_id1=HundBr00&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Nathan+Peterman&player_id2_select=Nathan+Peterman&fromyear_2=2017&toyear_2=2018&player_id2=PeteNa00&idx=players Putting aside the SSS concerns, there isn't a single statistic that supports Peterman > Hundley. None. and those statistics are based on a players first career game. Good job. Keep trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Just now, SteelKing728 said: It helped Keenum in having a coach who's whole game plan isn't based on hoping his starting QB plays like an all time great to even have a chance of winning a game, unlike some other coaches out there... That still doesn't explain why Hundley played poorly at home (50.6 QBR), but well on the road (91.7 QBR). Oh wait, it's exactly what I've already mentioned. His issues are between the ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Just now, SteelKing728 said: and those statistics are based on a players first career game. Good job. Keep trying. So...explain this one to me, where do you draw the line? Hundley played in 11 career games with 9 starts. Peterman played in 4 games with 2 starts. Is it 5 games? 6 games? 7 games? I legitimately want you to draw the line in the sand. You won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: So...explain this one to me, where do you draw the line? Hundley played in 11 career games with 9 starts. Peterman played in 4 games with 2 starts. Is it 5 games? 6 games? 7 games? I legitimately want you to draw the line in the sand. You won't. I don't believe you need a full season to evaluate a player, like I've seen some suggest over the years, but I do think a half season is a legitimate starting point. That is fair, is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Just now, SteelKing728 said: I don't believe you need a full season to evaluate a player, like I've seen some suggest over the years, but I do think a half season is a legitimate starting point. That is fair, is it not? How ironic that your "standard" manages to fit in between the number of games that Hundley has played and Peterman has played. Unless you have something to support your stance that a half a season, I'm done. Hell, I'm not over here making outrageous claims like Dalvin Cook is injury prone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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