eagles101 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Dude, just think about this. Literally every random one night stand is a willful coersion. What else do you call hitting on a chick? You are attempting to to persuade her into knocking boots. And even if its not the sexual aspect, your attempting to gain something for you benefit (her number, her time, her whatever). Thats just life. And all people use the tools at their disposal. in this case, its his fame. Ya but the line is where you try to not let them have a real choice. The gun to the head type of deal. You can say no but it wont end well....which doesnt soud likewhat ck did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagles101 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, Mossburg said: Just to be clear, the allegations that he confirmed as true vary. Some don't seem that serious, others he basically whipped it out in front of unsuspecting people. Which isnt a big deal, relatively. Like i know its illegal but its made way to big of a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 4 minutes ago, Mossburg said: Just to be clear, the allegations that he confirmed as true vary. Some don't seem that serious, others he basically whipped it out in front of unsuspecting people. The only thing I read was an article that he whipped it out infront of several chicks after asking if it was okay. So thats the only point I am debating. That if a dude ask you if its alright and you say yes than you should be held accountable for that decision. You cant back track afterwards. Thats ridiculous. These are grown adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share Posted November 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: Dude, just think about this. Literally every random one night stand is a willful coersion. What else do you call hitting on a chick? You are attempting to to persuade her into knocking boots. And even if its not the sexual aspect, your attempting to gain something for you benefit (her number, her time, her whatever). Thats just life. And all people use the tools at their disposal. in this case, its his fame. Uhhh... Did you just compare informed consent to coercion? I don’t know about you, but I’ve never hit on a chick by using a *tool at my disposal* to get her to to do *something for my benefit* that she otherwise absolutely had no interest in doing otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossburg Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/arts/television/louis-ck-sexual-misconduct.html As soon as they sat down in his room, still wrapped in their winter jackets and hats, Louis C.K. asked if he could take out his penis, the women said. They thought it was a joke and laughed it off. “And then he really did it,” Ms. Goodman said in an interview with The New York Times. “He proceeded to take all of his clothes off, and get completely naked, and started masturbating.” This is the allegation I was referring to that seemed the worst. Since he confirmed this is true, definitely no consent here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 1 minute ago, iPwn said: Uhhh... Did you just compare informed consent to coercion? I don’t know about you, but I’ve never hit on a chick by using a *tool at my disposal* to get her to to do *something for my benefit* that she otherwise absolutely had no interest in doing otherwise. You know exactly what I mean. If you are attractive, you use your looks. If you are polished, you use your vocab. If you are famous, you use your fame. Literally every single person uses their thing for their benefit. Thats human nature. And the entire act of seduction is taking someone who is not interested and making them interested. I mean, Im not saying you go to the "Its always sunny" implication on a boat. Thats rape. But if you talk a female into something, thats normal and its happening at bars all across the world right now. Hes an ugly old man, he used his fame to seduce chicks, there is literally nothing about that that should be shocking to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share Posted November 14, 2017 15 minutes ago, eagles101 said: You would have to willfully coerced them. He admits to not understanding, at the time, the position he put them in. Rather than get into the nuance of levels of coercion, I think we can agree on this. These women had a crime perpetrated against them. They were coerced into consenting, and then a crime was committed against them using that consent as justification. Whether or not Louis C.K. could be charged with those crimes or not, he acted in this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, Mossburg said: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/arts/television/louis-ck-sexual-misconduct.html This is the allegation I was referring to that seemed the worst. Since he confirmed this is true, definitely no consent here. Well, I retract my previous argument. I thought they had agreed to it. If they did not, than it changes everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share Posted November 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: You know exactly what I mean. If you are attractive, you use your looks. If you are polished, you use your vocab. If you are famous, you use your fame. Literally every single person uses their thing for their benefit. Thats human nature. And the entire act of seduction is taking someone who is not interested and making them interested. Except the entire point is is admits he doesn’t believe they were actually interested. He’s admitting that he believes his fame created the *implication* dynamic for these women. He wasn’t using his fame to make women interested. His fame was used - unwittingly or otherwise - to coerce women into agreeing to things they absolutely had no interest in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 1 minute ago, iPwn said: Except the entire point is is admits he doesn’t believe they were actually interested. He’s admitting that he believes his fame created the *implication* dynamic for these women from Sunny. He wasn’t using his fame to make women interested. His fame was used - unwittingly or otherwise - to coerce women into agreeing to things they absolutely had no interest in. If they consented than they are not victims. Thats all I am saying. People should be held accountable for the choices they make. If at the time they chose to do that action, then they dont get a free pass now to say something bad happened. If they didnt want it to happen they had a personal obligation to voice that concern. The idea that you can change your mind afterwards is a super slippery slope and its morally and ethically wrong. But if they did not consent, than he is 100% in the wrong and my entire comment is irrelevant. And from that last post, it kinda sounds like they did not consent. So im pretty much in the wrong here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: If they consented than they are not victims. Thats all I am saying. People should be held accountable for the choices they make. If at the time they chose to do that action, then they dont get a free pass now to say something bad happened. If they didnt want it to happen they had a personal obligation to voice that concern. The idea that you can change your mind afterwards is a super slippery slope and its morally and ethically wrong. But if they did not consent, than he is 100% in the wrong and my entire comment is irrelevant. And from that last post, it kinda sounds like they did not consent. So im pretty much in the wrong here. Asking someone who works for you for "permission" is no bueno IMO. Using fame to get laid is one thing, using fame/power to put someone in a position where there may be detrimental ramifications to their finances or career if they refuse is something totally different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Asking someone who works for you for "permission" is no bueno IMO. Using fame to get laid is one thing, using fame/power to put someone in a position where there may be detrimental ramifications to their finances or career if they refuse is something totally different. I agree. But are we assuming that they were in fear of threat to their finances and career? Is there actual evidence that is the case? And if so, are we sure that Louis CK implied that threat? Its a murky area. And to be clear, if he used his fame to *SCARE* them into sexual acts, its reprehensible and not my point at all. If he used his fame to seduce them, than this is dumb he did nothing wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagles101 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: I agree. But are we assuming that they were in fear of threat to their finances and career? Is there actual evidence that is the case? And if so, are we sure that Louis CK implied that threat? Its a murky area. And to be clear, if he used his fame to *SCARE* them into sexual acts, its reprehensible and not my point at all. If he used his fame to seduce them, than this is dumb he did nothing wrong. Ya thats where it gets super muddy. Might be a situation that sucks for both parties. Women think they are not able to say no and ck might think the ladies actually like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossburg Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Well, I retract my previous argument. I thought they had agreed to it. If they did not, than it changes everything. Different accusers, different allegations. One of them said she agreed. Those two did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKTexans Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 I always liked Louis C.K. Shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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