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Rams extend Aaron Donald 6 years 135 mil 87 mil grt

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29 minutes ago, KellChippy said:

The interior guy was more disruptive in your scenario. Just like if someone comes off the edge and forces the qb to move around the pocket and into another defender, the edge guy caused the sack.  

 

Is that according to you or according to PFF?

How do we determine which is which? How does PFF determine which is which? Do we determine which is which the same way?

Edited by Non-Issue

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1 hour ago, Non-Issue said:

Is that according to you or according to PFF?

How do we determine which is which? How does PFF determine which is which? Do we determine which is which the same way?

If we could determine that I wouldn’t have posted in this thread. At the same time, I don’t see any objective or subjective evidence that suggests interior rush is more disruptive. 

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8 hours ago, Non-Issue said:

Because an offensive line is fighting tooth and nail to maintain a pocket for the QB to step into if edge pressure is coming, while the tackles are working to direct the edge rush out and around the QB. Sacks generally come when the pocket collapses and the QB has nowhere to step up to avoid the edge rush or when the edge defender manages to get inside the tackle.

You mentioned Fletcher Cox. Take a look at these plays and tell me you can't see how important/disruptive interior penetration is and how it impacts the rest of the pass rush. If a QB doesn't have a pocket to step into, he is in big, big trouble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyWGHDYumQ8

 

nice clip, I like the Eagles D.  Agree about the DT's disrupting and ruining the pocket and the results.  #56 had good chase to for the FF on the one play. I don't see as much of that anymore, at least as a steelers fan. 

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I came in here and only read the last few posts but I gather there was a debate over interior DL vs edge rushers and which is more disruptive in rushing the QB...

In today's NFL, having an elite interior pass rush is maybe THE most valuable thing you can have on defense IMO. 

Interior pass rushers, especially now when we have these freakishly strong, athletic and powerful DTs, are simply so valuable because they get to the QB so damn fast. Teams' QBs are getting rid of the ball faster league wide than ever before in history. IIRC the avg was about 2.5 or so seconds. 

Simply put, guys rushing off the edge take longer to get to the quarterback. And even if they get to him but still miss or just dont get all the way to him, the good/great QBs typically either step up and throw it (but are still positioned so they can deliver the ball effectively) or step up a bit and side step one way and make a play. Unless you have interior pass rushers that are getting push, in which case the QB is forced to step forward into a brick wall named Fletcher Cox 😆. 

When your interior pass rush is humming and creating havoc, QBs are freakin screwed. Because the best interior DLineman in the league get there so damn quickly that the QB barely has time to even look past his 1st read before he gets rocked. And if the DLineman happens to not be able to get the QB down at first, most times the QB is still screwed. He'll start running backwards or try to move out of the pocket, but he isnt going to be able to get the ball out in an efficient way.

I mean, even Russell Wilson had no answer for the alien that is Aaron Donald.

I remember last season in like week 11 or Some thing when LAR and Sea played (when the Rams just destroyed the Hawks) and the one play where Donald just destroys whichever poor soul was trying to block him and gets to RW but doesn't get him down, and RW does what he always does and sort of spins around and runs backwards but Donald friggin chases him down and Wilson JUST barely throws the ball in the dirt before Donald rocks him. 

It was maybe one of the most impressive plays Ive ever seen from a DL. 

I love me some Cox and wouldnt take any DT over him.....except for Donald. Donald deserves even more money than what he got tbh. Guy is so damn special. 

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I agree that an unblocked inside rush is harder to deal with than a free edge rusher, and would get there faster. However, throughout the course of the game, I’m not sure if inside rushes get there any faster on average. 

I also agree that I see edge rushers miss more often,  but that could be because there is pressure off the edge more often in general.

That said, because interior pressure happens less often, a player who can consistently generate pressure from inside would be more valuable than a similar edge rusher. But that  doesn’t necessarily mean inside rush is more disruptive when it happens. 

 If I’m wrong and interior pressure is indeed more disruptive, I’m happy we have Fletcher Cox.  If I’m right, I still think Donald is the most disruptive player right now.

Edited by KellChippy

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I created a thread about this subject a few months ago, based off this article by PFF.  Here's their conclusion:

Quote

 

CONCLUSION

A good place to end this discussion (for the time being) is where the elite pass-rushers at each position compare.

Aaron Donald was an absolute stud last season, earning a 99.9 pass-rush grade and amassing 91 quarterback pressures, both of which led the league. But his impact was perhaps not as tremendous as one might imagine. On Donald’s solo pressures (70, including nullified plays), the opposing offense gained 4.9 yards per play and lost a total of 16.96 expected points. Compare this to the highest-graded edge rusher, Joey Bosa, whose solo pressures (46) cost the offense 41.89 expected points and resulted in 2.9 yards per play. Donald was quicker than average on solo pressures at 2.28 seconds per pressure which was still slower than Bosa who averaged just 2.22 seconds per solo pressure. Doing this comparison for the five highest-graded pass-rushers at each position also yields interesting results. The top five interior pass-rushers (Donald, Fletcher Cox, DeForest Buckner, Geno Atkins, and Gerald McCoy) cost the opposition 75.30 expected points, averaged 2.34 seconds per solo pressure and saw offenses gain 4.1 yards per play. The top five edge rushers (Bosa, DeMarcus Lawrence, Cam Jordan, Melvin Ingram, and Von Miller) cost the offense 109.16 expected points, averaged 2.29 seconds per solo pressure and saw the offense gain 3.1 yards per play.

Including pressures where other players were involved doesn’t change much. Pressures involving Donald cost the opposition 28.28 expected points, took an average of 2.33 seconds and resulted in 3.4 yards per play. Pressures involving Bosa cost the offense 68.20 expected points, took 2.18 seconds on average and resulted in 1.8 yards per play. Taking away plays that resulted in turnovers from Bosa’s total still leaves Bosa ahead of Donald by over 11 expected points lost.

Donald is a tremendous player who is certainly deserving of the acclaim he has received as the top player in the PFF 50 rankings. But production and value do not always align. Donald was utterly dominant with Jeff Fisher at the helm and that was not nearly enough to move the needle for the Rams. Enter boy genius Sean McVay and the rest is recent history.

It might be a little early to declare edge pressure definitively superior to interior pressure, but the preponderance of evidence thus far certainly casts great doubt that the counterfactual could be true. 

 

 

Edited by HTTRG3Dynasty

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4 minutes ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said:

I created a thread about this subject a few months ago, based off this article by PFF.  Here's their conclusion:

 

This is an interesting take.  I wonder would would cause this?  Because logic would make you think going up the middle would be most disruptive.  But I wonder if coming off the edge, especially from the blindside is particularly disruptive because the QB doesn't see the hit coming.  Whereas a guy up the middle they might be able to get rid of the ball.  Just a guess.  

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1 hour ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said:

I created a thread about this subject a few months ago, based off this article by PFF.  Here's their conclusion:

 

Our Lbs were bad and this makes sense...

We got gashed a ton by random long runs like the first 8-10 weeks.. Big plays were surrendered.. Sometimes Donald gets baited to over Pursue a play.. The analysis is pretty spot on.

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1 hour ago, MKnight82 said:

This is an interesting take.  I wonder would would cause this?  Because logic would make you think going up the middle would be most disruptive.  But I wonder if coming off the edge, especially from the blindside is particularly disruptive because the QB doesn't see the hit coming.  Whereas a guy up the middle they might be able to get rid of the ball.  Just a guess.  

Could it be because all pressures are not all created equally?

For instance, a defender can pressure the QB while being blocked (AFAIK). So it makes sense to me that interior guys push the pocket back quite a bit without necessarily shedding the blocks, pressuring the QB. 

Meanwhile edge rushers likely shed the tackle more often on their pressures - thus creating more problems in the backfield, if not causing an outright sack. It’d explain why Donald gets a ton of pressures and why the edge defender’s yardage is lower on average.

Just my thoughts though, it’s an interesting conversation.

Edited by Yin-Yang

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