Cuts

[Bobby816]

59 minutes ago, doumeyer said:

I am not sold on Lee, by any stretch of the imagination. After two years he has shown very little. He still has big time trouble is pass coverage, can't get to the QB. His only good point is  his speed getting to the outside, to make tackles.

I don’t disagree with you. But Williamson is a very good ILB and Lee has upside. That’s why I said top 15 regarding our LBs. you could even throw Adams in that group since he plays as a LB sometimes. We also might see Wilcox in that role as well.

[Rockice_8]

15 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

When it comes to our defense on talent we are not average. We are very above average if not great talent wise. Johnson, Claiborne, Skrine, Adams and Maye is a top 10 secondary easily. Our DLine talent wise is top 10. Williamson and Lee should be top 15. It’s edge we have an issue at that’s it. Jenkins is actually a pretty good edge setter so it’s just oressiringbtye an that hoods us back. But strictly on talent we should I have a top 10 D. We will see. It’s offense where we are very short on talent compared to the rest of the league. And that’s bc we neglect it early in the draft every year.

My post was in regard to last years defense when Johnson wasn't here, the safeties were rookies and Wilkerson was dogging it.

There is no way that defense was top 10 talented last year, not eve close.

[NJerseypaint]

23 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

How is an average to slightly below average defense not making it work though?  Again coupled with a bad offense having an average defense with not a lot of talent seems like he's doing a pretty decent job, no?

I don't agree for multiple reason that Bowles should magically make the Jets a top 10 defense.  BB is widely regarded as the best coach ever and his DC just got a HC job yet NE was one of the worst defenses in the NFL last year because they let all their talent walk.  They had a competent offense too unlike what the jets were working with last year.

Jets had the worst rushing attack last year (dead last in YPC).  NE was the best offense in football with a top 5 run game.  

I think you are highly overreacting to what Bowles did with this defense with little to no help.

Because he wasn't labeled an average defensive coach coming in. He was billed as a mastermind and so far he's far from.

It's not like we're totally devoid of defensive talent all these years. Sheldon Richardson, Mo Wilkerson, and Leo Williams should've been a formidable d-line but Bowles lost the locker room. He hasn't proven a thing since then to change my mind. Him and Kacy Rodgers are a waste of sideline space.

 

[Bobby816]

28 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

Because he wasn't labeled an average defensive coach coming in. He was billed as a mastermind and so far he's far from.

It's not like we're totally devoid of defensive talent all these years. Sheldon Richardson, Mo Wilkerson, and Leo Williams should've been a formidable d-line but Bowles lost the locker room. He hasn't proven a thing since then to change my mind. Him and Kacy Rodgers are a waste of sideline space.

 

He also sent a ton of blitzes last year and still we finished the year being the 4th worst team in sacks. Now I know it’s about pressure on the QBs and all as well. But we didn’t get a ton of that either. For me with our talent he should be getting a lot more out of them then what he does.

[Rockice_8]

We had one of the worst offenses in football last year.  Nothing helps a defense out more then field position.  Until we have elite defensive talent or a competent offense we will be an average defense at best.  Right now we have neither unless Darnold is the real deal.  Very few defenses can overcome terrible offenses.   It's a fact.

[SDotNova]

Jets DVOA ranking over the last 3 years:

2017: total: 17, pass: 22, run: 11

2016: total: 21, pass: 31, run: 1

2015: total: 5, pass: 9, run: 1

When he has had talented units, they’ve performed. We’ve had a strong DL all three years which is reflected in our run defense. The pass defense has fluctuated based on talent. 

For 2018, I expected us to continue to be stout against the run. I also expect us to improve against the pass with the addition of Trumaine Johnson.

[Rockice_8]

Just now, SDotNova said:

Jets DVOA ranking over the last 3 years:

2017: total: 17, pass: 22, run: 11

2016: total: 21, pass: 31, run: 1

2015: total: 5, pass: 9, run: 1

When he has had talented units, they’ve performed. We’ve had a strong DL all three years which is reflected in our run defense. The pass defense has fluctuated based on talent. 

Exactly and last time we had a competent offense was 2015.  Offense matters so much to a defensive ranking unless you are loaded like Jax.

[SDotNova]

15 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Exactly and last time we had a competent offense was 2015.  Offense matters so much to a defensive ranking unless you are loaded like Jax.

Right. Field position matters. For reference, our offensive dvoa has gone from 14>31>25. So really we only had an average offense in 2015. The last two years have been below average. Last year was impacted by Petty getting those last few starts though. Got to imagine we would have finished slightly below average had McCown not been hurt. 

2018 will be a good year to rate the coaching staff on offense and defense. We upgraded QB, C, RB and WR. And CB on defense. 

[Bobby816]

1 hour ago, Rockice_8 said:

We had one of the worst offenses in football last year.  Nothing helps a defense out more then field position.  Until we have elite defensive talent or a competent offense we will be an average defense at best.  Right now we have neither unless Darnold is the real deal.  Very few defenses can overcome terrible offenses.   It's a fact.

I'm not arguing that our offense wasn't good last year. But this point actually negates your point. If we were in fact so bad on offense that means our defense was on the field a lot more. Meaning we should have had more sacks and pressure bc we were on the field for more snaps. See what I'm getting at?

[Rockice_8]

14 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I'm not arguing that our offense wasn't good last year. But this point actually negates your point. If we were in fact so bad on offense that means our defense was on the field a lot more. Meaning we should have had more sacks and pressure bc we were on the field for more snaps. See what I'm getting at?

Yeah that's not really how it works but just goes to further my point that we have no pass rushers.  All Bowles can do is blitz which he does more then most.  When your #1 CB is Mo Claiborne and you have to blitz all the time you are not going to be a good defense.

[Bobby816]

1 hour ago, Rockice_8 said:

Yeah that's not really how it works but just goes to further my point that we have no pass rushers.  All Bowles can do is blitz which he does more then most.  When your #1 CB is Mo Claiborne and you have to blitz all the time you are not going to be a good defense.

A couple things... then that’s on him and Macc for not getting a pass rushers for now 4 offseasons. As well as not getting creative enough to generate pressure in other ways without a star edge. If he was an offensive minded HC it’d be a different story but he’s a defensive coach. So any fault he is partially to blame bc that’s his speciality.

[Rockice_8]

54 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

A couple things... then that’s on him and Macc for not getting a pass rushers for now 4 offseasons. As well as not getting creative enough to generate pressure in other ways without a star edge. If he was an offensive minded HC it’d be a different story but he’s a defensive coach. So any fault he is partially to blame bc that’s his speciality.

Totally agree.  We should have done better finding a pass rusher.  Neither has been great but I was quoting another poster who said Bowles has been horrible which I don't agree with.

[Bianconero]

Stewart waived, smh

[Dr.O]

2017 was not a great draft outside of Adams and Maye. 

[ekill08x]

"We're going to build through the draft, one day" - Mike Macagnan.

Terrible job so far with scouting.