Special K (and P and LS and the rest of the special teams unit)

[swede700]

There were a few points, including the ultra-high expectations for kickers these days.  If they make less than 75% of their kicks, they get cut, while 30 years ago, they barely averaged about 75%.  And also, as we've speculated here for quite a number of years, is that the kickers are left on an island, as ST coordinators don't often coach kickers.  They aren't qualified to do so.  They don't know how to evaluate kickers and they don't know how to coach them.  There's very few teams that can.  

[Cearbhall]

11 minutes ago, swede700 said:

There were a few points, including the ultra-high expectations for kickers these days.  If they make less than 75% of their kicks, they get cut, while 30 years ago, they barely averaged about 75%.  And also, as we've speculated here for quite a number of years, is that the kickers are left on an island, as ST coordinators don't often coach kickers.  They aren't qualified to do so.  They don't know how to evaluate kickers and they don't know how to coach them.  There's very few teams that can.  

Not sure it is fair to compare FG percentage made today to FG percentage made 30 years ago. The days of the shoeless straight on kickers are long gone. That technique wasn't as good, but it was the state of the kicking game back then.

Comparing kickers in that way is like comparing high jumpers that used the Western Roll to the high jumpers that came after **** Fosbury perfected a better technique that was then popularized to the point of making previous techniques obsolete in high level competition.

[Cearbhall]

8 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

**** Fosbury

It's a name, not a swear word.

Richard Fosbury then. Is that better? But I don't remember anyone calling him Richard.

 

[vike daddy]

1 minute ago, Cearbhall said:

It's a name, not a swear word.

Richard Fosbury then. Is that better? But I don't remember anyone calling him Richard.

webby has removed certain words from the vocabulary list of this site, they're censored automatically.

**** Butkus doesn't come through either.

[swede700]

1 hour ago, Cearbhall said:

Not sure it is fair to compare FG percentage made today to FG percentage made 30 years ago. The days of the shoeless straight on kickers are long gone. That technique wasn't as good, but it was the state of the kicking game back then.

Comparing kickers in that way is like comparing high jumpers that used the Western Roll to the high jumpers that came after **** Fosbury perfected a better technique that was then popularized to the point of making previous techniques obsolete in high level competition.

Shoeless straight on kickers was 50 years ago.  Gary and Morten Anderson/en were kicking 30 years ago.  Kicking ability/style hasn't changed all that much in the last 30 years, so why should expectations have changed?  If anything, there should be less, considering how much more difficult the situations have been made for kickers.  

[Cearbhall]

1 hour ago, swede700 said:

Shoeless straight on kickers was 50 years ago.  Gary and Morten Anderson/en were kicking 30 years ago.  Kicking ability/style hasn't changed all that much in the last 30 years, so why should expectations have changed?  If anything, there should be less, considering how much more difficult the situations have been made for kickers.  

Crikey!  30 Years goes by fast!!

It is hard to believe that it was 30 years ago was only the 80s and just barely.  Chuck Nelson wasn't that great for the Vikings. He was barely over 50% one of those years.  Thankfully, the Vikings recent kickers have been much better.

But looking at it, Chuck Nelson wasn't there in '89; he only lasted until 88. Rich Karlis kicked for the Vikings in '89. He was a barefoot kicker. While not as straight on as Fred Cox, Karlis was still fairly straight on in his approach. The Vikings can ask Kubiak about Karlis as Kubiak was the holder for Karlis on the Broncos where Karlis would kick barefoot even in the mile high snow. Karlis kicked barefoot when he set the NFL record playing for the Vikings in '89.

The 80s were the era of the barefoot kicker. The first barefoot kicker in the NFL was 1979 when Tony Franklin banged one through the uprights. And Kickers were still coming relatively straight on at the ball in the 80s and straight toe kickers were there.

Not only technique changes, but equipment changes and personnel adaptations give today's kickers advantages over kickers of the 80s. The shoes used today for kicking have improved over the shoes used back when kickers started using showed again.  Personelwise, as the NFL expanded the roster size of teams it  became increasingly common for teams to have long snapping specialists. The added consistency to the snap improved accuracy of kickers with the more consistent hold. As teams adapted to the larger rosters the days of the position player long snapping have gone by the wayside, save for injury replacements like Jared Allen snapping for the Vikings a bit a few years back.

The state of the kicking game has changed dramatically since the 80s. Every part of the system is now a specialized piece with modern shoes and modern techniques.

That is why expectations need to be different today than they were 30 years ago.

Late Add:

I forgot to mention the rule changes that make blocked kicks less likely and also the reduced concerns kickers have of being hit.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Cearbhall
Late Add

[swede700]

I saw that Karlis was kicking for the Vikings in '89, but he truly was the last of the breed, kinda like Doug Wilson being the last of the NHLers to play without a helmet, that doesn't make it the rule. (I remember vividly how the announcers would always gush over Karlis kicking barefoot and how no one else was doing it anymore)  Over the last 30 years, even with the improvement in shoes, that doesn't change human anatomy.  Its still why the maximum yardage of kicking is still around 63-64 yds.  

Even as Dawson pointed out in the article, most kicks are still between that 33-37 yd range.  That hasn't changed over the span of time of the entire NFL...and the techniques, I'll argue still aren't all that different from 30 years ago.  While you'll still have the oddity of a Paul Edinger corkscrew kick now and then, it's still largely been soccer-style kicking with the same motions since the mid-70s.  This ain't a golf-like situation where the advanced technology clubs make the man...it's still the man, better shoes can only do so much.  

Edited September 5, 2019 by swede700

[Cearbhall]

1 minute ago, swede700 said:

I saw that Karlis was kicking for the Vikings in '89, but he truly was the last of the breed, kinda like Doug Wilson being the last of the NHLers to play without a helmet, that doesn't make it the rule.  Over the last 30 years, even with the improvement in shoes, that doesn't change human anatomy.  Its still why the maximum yardage of kicking is still around 63-64 yds.  

Even as Dawson pointed out in the article, most kicks are still between that 33-37 yd range.  That hasn't changed over the span of time of the entire NFL...and the techniques, I'll argue still aren't all that different from 30 years ago.  While you'll still have the oddity of a Paul Edinger corkscrew kick now and then, it's still largely been soccer-style kicking with the same motions since the mid-70s.  This ain't a golf-like situation where the advanced technology clubs make the man...it's still the man, better shoes can only do so much.  

You probably didn't see my late add to the previous post. There have also been rule changes that have helped kickers.

[vike daddy]

29 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

The 80s were the era of the barefoot kicker.

were there ever more than a handful of guys (a footful?) who kicked barefoot? i don't think that qualifies as an era.

[Cearbhall]

3 hours ago, vike daddy said:

were there ever more than a handful of guys (a footful?) who kicked barefoot? i don't think that qualifies as an era.

Whatever you call it, the 80s are the time it was happening. That and other things have changed the kicking game enough that comparing kickers of this era to kickers of that era is hard to do. It isn't fair to compare them straight up on FG percentage. That is true of pretty much an position across eras IMO. Players need to be compared to their contemporaries especially when the game is changing as fastas it has in the last 30 years.

[Cearbhall]

21 hours ago, Cearbhall said:

Late Add:

I forgot to mention the rule changes that make blocked kicks less likely and also the reduced concerns kickers have of being hit.

Another thing that I forgot to mention is the improved field conditions today. Thirty years ago there was a lot more ripped up grass fields and games played on infield dirt. With multi-use stadiums going by the wayside in favor of specialized football stadiums as the NFL's popularity and thus revenue grew it has becoming increasingly rare in the last 30 years to see football played on the infield dirt.

Improvement in artificial turf has led to increased utilization of that in the league. Along with that, there is an increased number of indoor stadiums which means less wind to deal with and less cold weather to kick in. The artificial turf put in the Astrodome, which became known as Astroturf, and Tartan Turf, wasn't nearly as good as the artificial turf available today so was installed in fewer stadiums.

Grass fields improved too and along with that the expectations of the surface have become more particular. Grass fields are resodded more commonly today when they are ripped up. And lets not forget the NFL moving games from Mexico City to Los Angeles just a few years ago because the surface didn't meet their standard. Does anyone thing that the same high standard existed in the 80s?

These are just a few of the things that contribute to FG percentage increases. The move of the hashmarks towards the middle of the field was a bit earlier but rules such as teams not being able to line up over the center and limiting number of players on each side of the center on FG plays has made blocked FGs fairly rare nowadays.

[SteelKing728]

Is the rookie kicker on the practice squad doing okay?

[Freakish Mind]

Vedvik  0-1 on FG's today and 0-1 on xps.    The biggest reason the Jets lost today.   Thank god the Vikings released this bum.

[TENINCH]

Vikings made the right move for Colquitt and Bailey.

[vikesfan89]

Just now, TENINCH said:

Vikings made the right move for Colquitt and Bailey.

Especially if we don't have to kick field goals