Game of Thrones - Our Watch has Ended

[Leader]

1 minute ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Its "Loose".

But youre not getting it through your head. Theres a MOUNTAIN of mistakes like that made. And you pick 1 and say its nitpick. But its a MOUNTAIN of simple mistakes compiled up to show they didnt care in the slightest about getting things right.

LOL

[DoleINGout]

I'm going to read and respond to all five hundred-fifty six and counting pages of this thread.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Its "Loose".

But youre not getting it through your head. Theres a MOUNTAIN of mistakes like that made. And you pick 1 and say its nitpick. But its a MOUNTAIN of simple mistakes compiled up to show they didnt care in the slightest about getting things right.

Indeed. Nobody would really care if it was one little slip, but when those little slips continuously keep happening throughout one episode or one season in particular, they start adding up.

Just now, Leader said:

LOL

Imagine being offended by people criticizing a show's writing without realizing that throughout the entire show they've always yelled "Loose" when they fire projectiles. Yikes bro.

[skywlker32]

Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

The logical progression for burning women and children would start with showing a general disregard for human life. Dany is the exact opposite throughout the entire show.

IIRC, doesn't Tyrion or Varys say that the people are turning against Cersei? I seem to recall a couple of instances where her advisers tell her that the people are essentially being held against their will by Cersei, or something along those lines. Granted, it still doesn't explain why Dany targets them when she hears the bells instead of targeting Cersei. Now, if the showrunners wanted to portray the citizens as "choosing" Cersei over Dany, why not have Dany kill Cersei, then land her dragon, the people start hissing at her or throwing **** at her or something, and then she burns the city to the ground?

That's the thing though. THAT gives some form of justification for Dany's decision. That is not the intent. We are SUPPOSED to not be able to justify her actions because she has gone mad. All that is needed is her perception that they have chosen Cersei by coming to kingslanding for protection in the first place. They feel they need to be protected from Dany. As for her advisers, she was clearly not listening to them much the more the show went on and she no longer had her most trusted advisers and found out (and burned him for it) that one of her advisers was plotting against her. What makes you think she would trust the advisers at that point?

[lancerman]

6 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Why go outside of the Westeros world? Why not examine how Cersei came to power. She blew up the Sept, but she had already established that she had not a single care in the world for anyone outside of her own family and was already established as willing to do literally anything for power.

"She killed the nice slavers, clearly this means she's going to commit genocide later".....come on, man.

She also killed Dany's unborn baby, IIRC. 

The difference between Dickon and the people of King's Landing is she gave him a choice. That was the main theme throughout her journey even through Essos. Furthermore, none of the people in King's Landing who she burned indiscriminately fought against her. But overall, this is probably your strongest point.

Are you seriously asking this question? lol

Because the people of Westeros didn't know she existed. 

"That IS the content of the show" he says while also saying right before that she doesn't have a right to rule a country that "doesn't want or need her" when most of them had no idea she existed. How does that make any sense to you? Her last name absolutely gives her a right to rule, that's the entire point of this show up until they abandon those principles and choose Bran, is it not?

Again you're hung up on people not liking the outcome when I am repeatedly telling you people don't have a problem with that!

Okay let’s examine Cersei. Her good intentions were to keep her children and family safe. Robert knowing would have gotten her innocent children killed, Ned telling people would have, then the Stark’s/Stannis/Renly wanted to kill them. Then the Tyrell’s and Sparrows were trying to manipulate Tommen. So Cersei progressively did things to protect her kids and it got worse and worse until she indirectly lost all her kids and was alone and had nothing but their status.

Dude it was laid out plain as day in the show that those slavers were just living within a system that forced everyone into it and that they did everything to make their slaves live as good a life as possible to the point where they were paying slaves to compensate them for forced services (IE they were slaves in name only). You’re seriously justifying Dany crucifying those people. Dude get real. If you’ll justify that no wonder you’ll justify a lot of what she does. 

Dany asked Mirri Max Durr to save Drogo. She told Dany only life can pay for life. She told Dany not to go into the tent. Dany ran in there and the magic took hold. The magic Dany asked for. So basically Dany asked for blood magic everyone told her was dangerous and did the one thing she was warned not to do. Hmmmm

1. It doesn’t matter if she gave Dickon a choice. He was a prisoner and not a threat. She had a choice to not kill him. 

2. The people of King’s Landing had a choice. Cersei told them Dany would kill them and that she would protect them. They chose Cersei over Dany. This again is spelled out for you in the show. Dany even says “the people in Mereen rose up for me, these people aren’t”. That was the choice and Dany didn’t like that they didn’t choose her. 

Yeah it is a serious question. Besides being N entitled former princess who had the last name of a bunch of terrible kings, why did she think she had any right to rule a country that rose up and rejected her family? What the hell made her any different that her idiot brother in that regard? It was her last name. Pure and simple. Does a last name justifying conquering a country? 

No they knew she existed lol. In season one Robert’s council was talking about her wedding. Everyone knew Stannis failed to capture them at Dragonstone. Viserys was known the world over as the beggar king and everyone knew he had a sister. Then people learned about the dragons. Seriously who do you think wanted the Targaryens back? Half those houses only joined them to avoid getting burned by Dragons 300 years ago. They didn’t want them then. They didn’t want the Mad King’s daughter now. Notice how only several houses at war the Cersei joined her and they didn’t run to her until it was necessary. Oh and Jon pissed the whole North off by bowing because he needed her. None of the Northern Lords wanted her either. Only people currently at odds with the crown. Nobody was clamoring for a dragon queen to come conquer the country. The small folk didn’t give a ****. The majority of the Houses didn’t either. 

So actually most of what you said there was wrong. Every single person in Westeros knew Viserys. He was the very public son of the King. Nobody was begging for him to return. Exactly the same claim as Dany. It’s funny how you made a bunch of snarky statements, while getting the facts wrong. 

Also you missed the entire point if you think last names give people the right to rule. Nobody cared about the last name Targaryen until dragons started burning everyone. Then the last names of the kings Lannister, Stark, Gardner, etc ceased to matter. The Targaryens lost their dragons and the support of the realm. Robert didn’t have the right to rule because of the last name Baratheon. He got to rule because he had the better army. Renly would have won the crown with Highgarden support if Stannis didn’t use blood magic to kill him. He was third in line. He just had the most power. Claims only matter if you can enforce it. 

Dany was a poor girl who was told stories about her family by her brother and thought it made her a special snowflake who deserved to rule over a country that rejected her family.

I’m getting hung up on you saying the outcome was objectively poorly done when lots of people used the content of the show to predict it long before it happened. And then you telling people they were objectively wrong about it because you can’t accept other opinions and think everyone who disagrees with you isn’t being rational.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Just now, skywlker32 said:

That's the thing though. THAT gives some form of justification for Dany's decision. That is not the intent. We are SUPPOSED to not be able to justify her actions because she has gone mad.

Fair enough.

Just now, skywlker32 said:

All that is needed is her perception that they have chosen Cersei by coming to kingslanding for protection in the first place. They feel they need to be protected from Dany. As for her advisers, she was clearly not listening to them much the more the show went on and she no longer had her most trusted advisers and found out (and burned him for it) that one of her advisers was plotting against her. What makes you think she would trust the advisers at that point?

The people didn't come to King's Landing for protection, they already lived there.

And Dany literally already told Varys she'd burn him alive if he betrayed her, because he had a history of betraying people. That much was already clearly foreshadowed and explained.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 minutes ago, lancerman said:

I’m getting hung up on you saying the outcome was objectively poorly done when lots of people used the content of the show to predict it long before it happened. And then you telling people they were objectively wrong about it because you can’t accept other opinions and think everyone who disagrees with you isn’t being rational.

Congratulations on not reading anything I've said. Truly impressive at this point.

[Leader]

Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Indeed. Nobody would really care if it was one little slip, but when those little slips continuously keep happening throughout one episode or one season in particular, they start adding up.

Imagine being offended by people criticizing a show's writing without realizing that throughout the entire show they've always yelled "Loose" when they fire projectiles. Yikes bro.

Rather - imagine considering someone who's so picky-une about things that they declare a totally inconsequential bad word choice was made - AND IT REALLY MATTERED TO THEIR ENJOYMENT OF THE OVERALL PROJECT.  Thats what I find funny.

"They said 'Fire' and its such a bummer....I just cant get over it.....I just cant get it out of my head and I'll have to ***** about it for weeks.....cause it really, really matters....it just wasnt........authentic!"

My goodness.

[lancerman]

19 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Accept what happens is off screen?

This is possibly the worst justification and overall worst thing I have read since the Finale, yikes. If this is what helps you make it more believable, then props to you. 

What is cannon is what’s on screen. Saying assume what happens is off screen can basically be an excuse for every badly written TV Show and Movie in the world. What a crock of bologna. That is seriously the best you could come up with?

It is the writers job to show everything on screen. Nothing should be assumed off screen and nothing should be assumed from the books. What you see is what happens.  

If it’s something like characters traveling then yes it is perfectly acceptable to accept a few weeks that weren’t relevant to the plot happened off screen to get the point..

Likewise if we are told after a few stressful situations that Dany isolated herself and her state of mind wasn’t okay we can also accept that 

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, skywlker32 said:

That's the thing though. THAT gives some form of justification for Dany's decision. That is not the intent. We are SUPPOSED to not be able to justify her actions because she has gone mad. All that is needed is her perception that they have chosen Cersei by coming to kingslanding for protection in the first place. They feel they need to be protected from Dany. As for her advisers, she was clearly not listening to them much the more the show went on and she no longer had her most trusted advisers and found out (and burned him for it) that one of her advisers was plotting against her. What makes you think she would trust the advisers at that point?

We all have no problem with the ending, just how we got there. That scene did not feel genuine or real in any way, just like most scenes this season. It was not properly fleshed and didn’t make sense, at least not yet. Yea Danny will probably die in the books but it will he completely fleshed out and make sense. 

Dannys character basically made a 360 and it felt very forced because the writers knew they had to kill her in the finale according to George. 

Like I’ve said several times, you’ll have to do a lot better than some sentences and burning military leaders and slave owners. 

It was a rushed mess this season and did not flow or feel organic in any way. The Jon killing Danny scene was even worse. You can look at reactions to that scene and there are nothing. No surprise, no happiness, no sadness, no anger, nothing. That scene was absolutely soulless because there was no development and a horribly rushed/forced plot.  

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 minutes ago, Leader said:

Rather - imagine considering someone who's so picky-une about things that they declare a totally inconsequential bad word choice was made - AND IT REALLY MATTERED TO THEIR ENJOYMENT OF THE OVERALL PROJECT.  Thats what I find funny.

"They said 'Fire' and its such a bummer....I just cant get over it.....I just cant get it out of my head and I'll have to ***** about it for weeks.....cause it really, really matters....it just wasnt........authentic!"

My goodness.

Again, nobody cares if it's just one little thing. Those little things add up. If those things don't worry you, I couldn't care less and I don't think anyone else does either, but don't act like the show didn't mess up there.

[lancerman]

3 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Congratulations on not reading anything I've said. Truly impressive at this point.

Dude everyone read what you are saying. You just can’t comprehend that people perfectly understand what you are saying and disagree with your opinion. 

Newsflash. You’re the person who said it was not subjective to think it was debatable that Dany’s turn was done right. 

[PARROTHEAD]

1 minute ago, Leader said:

Rather - imagine considering someone who's so picky-une about things that they declare a totally inconsequential bad word choice was made - AND IT REALLY MATTERED TO THEIR ENJOYMENT OF THE OVERALL PROJECT.  Thats what I find funny.

"They said 'Fire' and its such a bummer....I just cant get over it.....I just cant get it out of my head and I'll have to ***** about it for weeks.....cause it really, really matters....it just wasnt........authentic!"

My goodness.

That makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever. I put a list and stopped when the list was getting rather long.

And youre trying to say I "cant get over it"? Think it matters to me?

You nitpicking out certain tiny sections of entire post and feeling the need to say the same pathetic thing over and over because you havent got a leg to stand on except saying, "Oh they cant get over it. Im going to sing wheels on the bus cause I cant think of a logical response otherwise."

[Leader]

2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Again, nobody cares if it's just one little thing. Those little things add up. If those things don't worry you, I couldn't care less and I don't think anyone else does either, but don't act like the show didn't mess up there.

They messed using the word "Fire?" Guess I dont have the anal retentive mindset you do. Didnt bother me at all and now that its been specifically pointed out and I've had a chance to reconsider things.....I still dont care. 

[lancerman]

2 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

We all have no problem with the ending, just how we got there. That scene did not feel genuine or real in any way, just like most scenes this season. It was not properly fleshed and didn’t make sense, at least not yet. Yea Danny will probably die in the books but it will he completely fleshed out and make sense. 

Dannys character basically made a 360 and it felt very forced because the writers knew they had to kill her in the finale according to George. 

Like I’ve said several times, you’ll have to do a lot better than some sentences and burning military leaders and slave owners. 

It was a rushed mess this season and did not flow or feel organic in any way. The Jon killing Danny scene was even worse. You can look at reactions to that scene and there are nothing. No surprise, no happiness, no sadness, no anger, nothing. That scene was absolutely soulless because there was no development and a horribly rushed/forced plot.  

How about this. She threatened to burn down EVERY SINGLE CITY she went to during the show for 7 seasons. Qarth, Mereen, Astapor, Yunkai, then Volantis (this one may have been book only) and King’s Landing (two cities she threatened to burn before going there). 

Jorah and Tyrion talked her out of it. Jorah died and Tyrion lost her confidence so finally she went through with her threats 

I don’t know how a character finally living up to threats she was making the whole show makes it a 360 degree turn