Le'Veon Bell

[KingOfNewYork]

55 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

100%. We struggle to attract FAs bc we aren’t a desirable franchise. Pretty much every FA doesn’t just go to the highest bidder bc they factor in other things like the scheme, coach, roster etc. There’s countless FAs that have gone elsewhere when we have had good (even the highest paying) offer out there for them.

 

Why Bell is different.... is his decision I think is 100% about money. So if we offer the most I think he chooses us. Those other factors I don’t think matter to him after sitting out a year and leaving 15mill out there. That’s why we stand a chance to get him. 

I’ve never really gotten the distinction that we don’t attract free agents. We’ve never really had huge amounts of cap space. 

Of the guys we’ve missed we never really showed significant interest in or they priced themselves out our range. 

I mean sure Cousins chose Minnesota and that made perfect sense. 

Most NFL players take the money so I agree that Bell would likely come if we offer the most money. 

With a new coaching staff and GM I think the approach to free agency can change. This is the perfect year to start fresh. 

Top 3 pick

100M

Young QB

big market

thats a dream scenario for new GMs and Head Coaches.

[Bobby816]

38 minutes ago, KingOfTheDot said:

I’ve never really gotten the distinction that we don’t attract free agents. We’ve never really had huge amounts of cap space. 

Of the guys we’ve missed we never really showed significant interest in or they priced themselves out our range. 

I mean sure Cousins chose Minnesota and that made perfect sense. 

Most NFL players take the money so I agree that Bell would likely come if we offer the most money. 

With a new coaching staff and GM I think the approach to free agency can change. This is the perfect year to start fresh. 

Top 3 pick

100M

Young QB

big market

thats a dream scenario for new GMs and Head Coaches.

@jetskid007just a few days ago gave a good 7-8 FAs in the last 5 years that have snubbed us when we had too offers out there for them. Fact is the only big FA that has chosen us was Revis. And I hated bringing him back. And realistically we would have had 0% signing him if we didn’t overpay for starters and that he was drafted and played for us before. Just last off season AR15 and Cousins snubbed us. The list is several names every FA period. Bell will cause the money though. So if we have high offer I think he takes it. I do have questions about his effort once signed like others. But if we can grab a couple OLineman and add atleast 1 more receiving option. We will be a very competitive football team. Therefor we will get him playing hard if we are in a playoff race at all. The biggest mistake we can make is signing Bell to a huge deal and then sit back and save cap space after that and draft all defense. He will play with poor effort if we aren’t competitive on offense. He will be the focal point so the OL will need an apgrade and a receiving option should be added for Darnold bc teams will stack the box against us of Bell is here.

[jetskid007]

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

@jetskid007just a few days ago gave a good 7-8 FAs in the last 5 years that have snubbed us when we had too offers out there for them. Fact is the only big FA that has chosen us was Revis. And I hated bringing him back. And realistically we would have had 0% signing him if we didn’t overpay for starters and that he was drafted and played for us before. Just last off season AR15 and Cousins snubbed us. The list is several names every FA period. Bell will cause the money though. So if we have high offer I think he takes it. I do have questions about his effort once signed like others. But if we can grab a couple OLineman and add atleast 1 more receiving option. We will be a very competitive football team. Therefor we will get him playing hard if we are in a playoff race at all. The biggest mistake we can make is signing Bell to a huge deal and then sit back and save cap space after that and draft all defense. He will play with poor effort if we aren’t competitive on offense. He will be the focal point so the OL will need an apgrade and a receiving option should be added for Darnold bc teams will stack the box against us of Bell is here.

You’re failing to mention that one of the most important factors for a FA determining where the player signs is the QB. Sam may not have put up the stats, but he’s held in high regard around the league. Just look back to Josh Norman’s comments this offseason. 

[Rockice_8]

@Bobby816 You keep saying we get snubbed but most of the time it was because we weren't willing to up our offer to the best price.  Mac was always just so close to the final offer and consistently wouldn't up his offer to land the player.  We all know this by the countless articles abotu our offer being a close 2nd.  Most of the guys you listed outside of Cousins we didn't have the best offer according to all reports so this idea we are constantly snubbed is a bit over dramatic.  

You can't build through FA anyway so we need to start drafting better before anything is going to change in this organization.  We are going to keep signing guys like Johnson to be our savior when in reality they need to be a complementary piece to our foundation.

This idea @jetskid007 was pushing about Mac drafting for Bowles is exactly the type of garbage media spin that has us where we are today and a big reason why Mac is going to be here next year.  No offense jetskidd, I know you have some inside connections but this scape goating going on for Mac by throwing Bowles under the bus is awful for our franchise direction.  If I'm the GM and have final say of players I'm not putting my reputation on the line for Bowles by drafting DL, ILB, and SS every draft while overpaying backup QB's (McCown and Fitz).  He has nobody to blame but himself and being a good/nice guy isn't an excuse for bad drafting.  Until we start drafting impact positions (pass rusher, CB, OL, offensive weapons etc) we aren't going to be good no matter what great OC we have or HC we land.

This team lacks zero building blocks outside of Adams and Darnold and that is on the GM, not the coach.  Bowles is an awful coach but Mac is equally an awful GM because of the positional value he continues to draft with the 1st rounders, the drafting of 25 year old small school players that will need a few years to adjust to the NFL if they do at all and older draft picks like Stewart and Donahue.  His draft record over the past 4 years is one of the worst in the sport with the least amount of players he drafted still in the league.  I'm sorry but the defending of Mac is nauseating to read.  The culture hasn't changed, we are loaded with guys that get arrested still and we have a stink of losing surrounding this team.  Only winning can change a culture and only good drafting changes losing, that is on the GM.

This team is at a crossroads and is in position to land a real good leader of men and fresh outlook GM  to lead this team with all it's resources.  The way it looks is this team is going to blow it by retaining an awful GM and hiring a retread HC, one not named Harbaugh because why would he want to come here.

If it's me I'm cleaning house and promoting our bright young GM in training Brian Hemerdinger who has an offensive scouting background.  I'm not the one to suggest this name but I've heard the name Sashi Brown thrown around for salary cap and assistant GM duties which I really like.  I'd follow that up with Dave Toub as HC.  He's been assistant HC to Reid for quite some time and appears like a good candidate for HC to oversee football operations as a leader not just OC in over his head.  I'd trust in them to bring in the right OC and DC to lead their respective sides of the ball and go from there.  By doing so we don't completely overhaul the FO with an outside GM since Chris Johnson likely can't do that without Woody but move into the future with an offensive minded GM/HC combo to get with the times in hopes we don't completely ruin our one glimmer of hope Sam.        

 

[Bobby816]

5 minutes ago, jetskid007 said:

You’re failing to mention that one of the most important factors for a FA determining where the player signs is the QB. Sam may not have put up the stats, but he’s held in high regard around the league. Just look back to Josh Norman’s comments this offseason. 

How he ends this season will be big too. QB and OL might be factors... but with Bell it will be about MONEY

[Bobby816]

2 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

@Bobby816 You keep saying we get snubbed but most of the time it was because we weren't willing to up our offer to the best price.  Mac was always just so close to the final offer and consistently wouldn't up his offer to land the player.  We all know this by the countless articles abotu our offer being a close 2nd.  Most of the guys you listed outside of Cousins we didn't have the best offer according to all reports so this idea we are constantly snubbed is a bit over dramatic.  

You can't build through FA anyway so we need to start drafting better before anything is going to change in this organization.  We are going to keep signing guys like Johnson to be our savior when in reality they need to be a complementary piece to our foundation.

This idea @jetskid007 was pushing about Mac drafting for Bowles is exactly the type of garbage media spin that has us where we are today and a big reason why Mac is going to be here next year.  No offense jetskidd, I know you have some inside connections but this scape goating going on for Mac by throwing Bowles under the bus is awful for our franchise direction.  If I'm the GM and have final say of players I'm not putting my reputation on the line for Bowles by drafting DL, ILB, and SS every draft while overpaying backup QB's (McCown and Fitz).  He has nobody to blame but himself and being a good/nice guy isn't an excuse for bad drafting.  Until we start drafting impact positions (pass rusher, CB, OL, offensive weapons etc) we aren't going to be good no matter what great OC we have or HC we land.

This team lacks zero building blocks outside of Adams and Darnold and that is on the GM, not the coach.  Bowles is an awful coach but Mac is equally an awful GM because of the positional value he continues to draft with the 1st rounders, the drafting of 25 year old small school players that will need a few years to adjust to the NFL if they do at all and older draft picks like Stewart and Donahue.  His draft record over the past 4 years is one of the worst in the sport with the least amount of players he drafted still in the league.  I'm sorry but the defending of Mac is nauseating to read.  The culture hasn't changed, we are loaded with guys that get arrested still and we have a stink of losing surrounding this team.  Only winning can change a culture and only good drafting changes losing, that is on the GM.

This team is at a crossroads and is in position to land a real good leader of men and fresh outlook GM  to lead this team with all it's resources.  The way it looks is this team is going to blow it by retaining an awful GM and hiring a retread HC, one not named Harbaugh because why would he want to come here.

If it's me I'm cleaning house and promoting our bright young GM in training Brian Hemerdinger who has an offensive scouting background.  I'm not the one to suggest this name but I've heard the name Sashi Brown thrown around for salary cap and assistant GM duties which I really like.  I'd follow that up with Dave Toub as HC.  He's been assistant HC to Reid for quite some time and appears like a good candidate for HC to oversee football operations as a leader not just OC in over his head.  I'd trust in them to bring in the right OC and DC to lead their respective sides of the ball and go from there.  By doing so we don't completely overhaul the FO with an outside GM since Chris Johnson likely can't do that without Woody but move into the future with an offensive minded GM/HC combo to get with the times in hopes we don't completely ruin our one glimmer of hope Sam.        

 

Maybe you’re reading just what you hear in the media that makes us not sound as bad. But here’s just a few names that @jetskid007wrote about in the last few years.

 

• 2015: Darrelle Revis (top 5 ranked FA; signed);
• 2015: Devin McCourty (top 5 ranked FA; NYJ/NE finalist - re-signed with NE) 
• 2016: Olivier Vernon (top 5 ranked FA; NYJ/JAX/NYG finalists - signed with NYG)
• 2016: Kelechi Osemele (top 5 ranked FA; NYJ/MIN/OAK finalists - signed with OAK)
• 2017: Dont'a Hightower (top 5 ranked FA; NYJ/NE finalists - re-signed with NE) 
• 2018: Kirk Cousins (top 5 ranked FA; NYJ/MIN finalists - signed with MIN)

 

Thia lost doesn’t even include everyone else that we had top offers for and the went elsewhere. This is just a list of a few of the top guys. It’s good that’s a Macc atleast puta offers out there. But at the end of the day we fall short. And that’s pretty much bc of our roster, coach and scheme. So when we look at the FA class and see big name FAs out there. Us getting them isn’t a given. Bell stands a bigger chance of coming here bc of money. He will cause money.

[Rockice_8]

So basically only Cousins on that list we really missed on as the high bidder.  A few we bid on resigned with their own teams and the ones that left I know were were not the high bidder for Vernon or Osemele based on reports so what does it matter that we were in on these guys.  If you aren't going to offer the most money then you aren't going to land the top FA's.

Mac has always stuck to his price and that is likely the reason for missing on guys like Vernon and Osemele. 

[jetskid007]

1 hour ago, Rockice_8 said:

So basically only Cousins on that list we really missed on as the high bidder.  A few we bid on resigned with their own teams and the ones that left I know were were not the high bidder for Vernon or Osemele based on reports so what does it matter that we were in on these guys.  If you aren't going to offer the most money then you aren't going to land the top FA's.

Mac has always stuck to his price and that is likely the reason for missing on guys like Vernon and Osemele. 

We were willing to outbid the Bears for Mack, but the Raiders preferred to send him to the NFC instead. 

 

In in regards to your comments RE: Macc/media spin- I’m not seeking to defend him and use Bowles as a scapegoat, I’m trying to point out the obvious: the Jets plan to hire Macc and Bowles as equals hasn’t worked and as a result too much has been put on Todd’s plate. Macc deserves his fair share of blame, but the staff needs to be able to develop talent. They have not. Bowles has not been able to effectively transition into a “CEO-type” coach whose focus is on philosophy, culture, roster building, and team management. He’s done half his job. I’ve always stood by Todd because I like his attitude and demeanor, but he would be much better suited for an organization who just allows him to simply focus on coaching. 

Going back to Maccagnan, the Jets have three options: (1) continue with his vision, grant him more power and allow him to have a say in the next coach, who will report directly to him; (2) hire a coach to fill the current role/power Todd holds and to work with Macc on the specifics of building the roster; or (3) blow it up. 

 

[Dr.O]

We didn’t have the Best Offer for Vernon or Osemele (This was the year we were cash strapped because of the Wilkerson Tag/Deal and ended up landing Matt Forte), We pulled out from Hightower after we had him in for a visit and didn’t like his medicals, Revis we landed obv, Cousins we didn’t land which looks like a god send, and McCourty tbh I can’t find much info on other than he was open to signing with a NY Team and that we had interest in him.

[Rockice_8]

1 hour ago, jetskid007 said:

We were willing to outbid the Bears for Mack, but the Raiders preferred to send him to the NFC instead. 

 

In in regards to your comments RE: Macc/media spin- I’m not seeking to defend him and use Bowles as a scapegoat, I’m trying to point out the obvious: the Jets plan to hire Macc and Bowles as equals hasn’t worked and as a result too much has been put on Todd’s plate. Macc deserves his fair share of blame, but the staff needs to be able to develop talent. They have not. Bowles has not been able to effectively transition into a “CEO-type” coach whose focus is on philosophy, culture, roster building, and team management. He’s done half his job. I’ve always stood by Todd because I like his attitude and demeanor, but he would be much better suited for an organization who just allows him to simply focus on coaching. 

Going back to Maccagnan, the Jets have three options: (1) continue with his vision, grant him more power and allow him to have a say in the next coach, who will report directly to him; (2) hire a coach to fill the current role/power Todd holds and to work with Macc on the specifics of building the roster; or (3) blow it up. 

 

No doubt Todd is a terrible HC and best suited as a DC somewhere.  As for Mac what person would stake their first GM job deferring to his HC for drat picks.  His draft picks are dead last in terms of success rate in his 4 years (it was like 30% or something that are even still in the league.  Yes I get there are ups and down in the draft but he continues to draft low impact positions early on in the draft and compound that with low upside picks in the mid rounds.  He deserves equal blame to Bowles and if Bowles is a walking dead man and will be fired then Mac should be right behind him out the door.  

A roster that is among the worst in the NFL in his 4 years, overpaying backup QBs 10M+ to do nothing, drafting low impact players in round 1, and having the worst mid round success rate of any GM in football are clear cut reasons this guy is suited to build a team.  He's had 4 years to do something and we are no closer to the playoffs then we were 4 years prior.  I don't want to hear he's been close on this player and he's defered to Todd in team building excuses.  Option 3 is the only option.  Blow it up.

If he stays you can bet he's going to be overpaying to keep Williams here when he should be dealt to the highest bidder for a pick (2nd/3rd rounder) and not resigned to big money.  Since he's Mac's guy you can bet that big contract is coming.

[NJerseypaint]

Well a new landing spot has emerged: The Kansas City Chiefs. If I'm Bell I'd take a haircut to play with a surefire SB team.

[ekill08x]

3 hours ago, NJerseypaint said:

Well a new landing spot has emerged: The Kansas City Chiefs. If I'm Bell I'd take a haircut to play with a surefire SB team.

You are 100% right. If we have to pony 20mil a year for Bell to come here, he can kick rocks. 

[KingOfNewYork]

16 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

@jetskid007just a few days ago gave a good 7-8 FAs in the last 5 years that have snubbed us when we had too offers out there for them. Fact is the only big FA that has chosen us was Revis. And I hated bringing him back. And realistically we would have had 0% signing him if we didn’t overpay for starters and that he was drafted and played for us before. Just last off season AR15 and Cousins snubbed us. The list is several names every FA period. Bell will cause the money though. So if we have high offer I think he takes it. I do have questions about his effort once signed like others. But if we can grab a couple OLineman and add atleast 1 more receiving option. We will be a very competitive football team. Therefor we will get him playing hard if we are in a playoff race at all. The biggest mistake we can make is signing Bell to a huge deal and then sit back and save cap space after that and draft all defense. He will play with poor effort if we aren’t competitive on offense. He will be the focal point so the OL will need an apgrade and a receiving option should be added for Darnold bc teams will stack the box against us of Bell is here.

Snubbing isn’t what happened. 

If they took more money to play elsewhere then that’s not snubbing. 

Cousins should have chose Minnesota, everyone knows this. 

AR15 likely took more money and a bigger role elsewhere with a offensive minded head coach and a clear understanding of their QB position. 

Fact is Idzik and Macc both are take it or leave it negotiators. That’s been clear the past 6 years. 

[Bobby816]

5 hours ago, KingOfTheDot said:

Snubbing isn’t what happened. 

If they took more money to play elsewhere then that’s not snubbing. 

Cousins should have chose Minnesota, everyone knows this. 

AR15 likely took more money and a bigger role elsewhere with a offensive minded head coach and a clear understanding of their QB position. 

Fact is Idzik and Macc both are take it or leave it negotiators. That’s been clear the past 6 years. 

And that’s clearly hasn’t worked for us

[KingOfNewYork]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

And that’s clearly hasn’t worked for us

I feel like it’s a problem that only persists because we suck at drafting. 

Most great teams aren’t concerned with not adding free agents they’re concerned with losing their own.