Le'Veon Bell

[barnaby8787]

Worth Noting:

Ingram: Best YPC since 2015 (among 45 backs with 300+ carries)

Coleman: Best Yds/target since 2015 (among 43 backs with 100+ targets)

[Rockice_8]

Isaiah Crowell has run for 4.8 ypc this year and nobody here is mistaking him for Zeke Elliot or the Jets as a good rushing team.  Neither are game changers like Bell.

[barnaby8787]

6 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Isaiah Crowell has run for 4.8 ypc this year and nobody here is mistaking him for Zeke Elliot or the Jets as a good rushing team.  Neither are game changers like Bell.

Way too small of a sample size.  I'm comparing careers, not one year.  And again:

Ingram: Best YPC since 2015 (among 45 backs with 300+ carries)

Coleman: Best Yds/target since 2015 (among 43 backs with 100+ targets)

[Rockice_8]

21 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

Both are extremely underrated.  Both have higher YPC's than Bell on their careers.   Bell wants elite receiver money.  It's a lot of dough.  Not saying he isn't a huge help to Darnold, but it's still something to take into consideration, especially when RB's get injured so frequently. 

Underrated?  I don't know about that.  Both are viewed as solid NFL RB's.  Ingram is about to turn 29 and Coleman has the same YPC as Bell basically.  Bell catches like 80+ balls every year and is clearly better.  We don't need more solid RB's we already have a few of them we need game changers and Bell is that.  

[Rockice_8]

3 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

Way too small of a sample size.  I'm comparing careers, not one year.  And again:

Ingram: Best YPC since 2015 (among 45 backs with 300+ carries)

Coleman: Best Yds/target since 2015 (among 43 backs with 100+ targets)

Career YPC

Crowell 4.3
Coleman 4.4
Ingram 4.5 

Crowell's number is basically from a whole season this year not really that small.  None of them are close to Bell as a receiving back despite your random yards/target stat.

[barnaby8787]

2 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Underrated?  I don't know about that.  Both are viewed as solid NFL RB's.  Ingram is about to turn 29 and Coleman has the same YPC as Bell basically.  Bell catches like 80+ balls every year and is clearly better.  We don't need more solid RB's we already have a few of them we need game changers and Bell is that.  

Leveon is a game changer in the receiving game given his volume, but not the running game.  Given the success of other RB's behind Pitt's o-line, you also have to question how effective his career 4.3 YPC will truly be.  

 

[barnaby8787]

4 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Career YPC

Crowell 4.3
Coleman 4.4
Ingram 4.5 

Crowell's number is basically from a whole season this year not really that small.  None of them are close to Bell as a receiving back despite your random yards/target stat.

It is small.  It's inflated off of one ginormous game.  Leveon's receiving stats are inflated off of volume.  Coleman's receiving stat is worth noting because that's showing that he's elite after the catch.  It's a volume game.  We obviously don't know what Coleman's numbers would be at that volume, but his receiving stats prove that he's elite in the receiving game as well.

[Rockice_8]

Just now, barnaby8787 said:

Leveon is a game changer in the receiving game given his volume, but not the running game.  Given the success of other RB's behind Pitt's o-line, you also have to question how effective his career 4.3 YPC will truly be.  

 

And Ingram will be 29 playing in one of the best offenses in football where defenses couldn't care less about him.  It was all about stopping Brees for all those years.  Now Ingram at 29 is supposed to come here and what run for that same efficiency?

 

[barnaby8787]

Just now, Rockice_8 said:

And Ingram will be 29 playing in one of the best offenses in football where defenses couldn't care less about him.  It was all about stopping Brees for all those years.  Now Ingram at 29 is supposed to come here and what run for that same efficiency?

 

So your argument is that they don't stack the box against Brees?  Then why couldn't Reggie Bush succeed?

[Rockice_8]

Just now, barnaby8787 said:

It is small.  It's inflated off of one ginormous game.  Leveon's receiving stats are inflated off of volume.  Coleman's receiving stat is worth noting because that's showing that he's elite after the catch.  It's a volume game.  We obviously don't know what Coleman's numbers would be at that volume, but his receiving stats prove that he's elite in the receiving game as well.

He had every chance to be the man this year and prove his worth and yet Ish Smith is taking touches.  It just goes to show you neither of these guys are that great.  Yes they are solid NFL RB's but what makes either of them better then Crowell or McGuire.  Plus Coleman was in Shanny's RB friendly system for his two best years which inflates his pass catching numbers.  Look at Brieda in SF.  He's got 5.3 per carry and nearly 10 per catch as an undrafted FA.

[barnaby8787]

5 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

He had every chance to be the man this year and prove his worth and yet Ish Smith is taking touches.  It just goes to show you neither of these guys are that great.  Yes they are solid NFL RB's but what makes either of them better then Crowell or McGuire.  Plus Coleman was in Shanny's RB friendly system for his two best years which inflates his pass catching numbers.  Look at Brieda in SF.  He's got 5.3 per carry and nearly 10 per catch as an undrafted FA.

Ito Smith, but I get your point.  Also, Pitt runs an RB friendly system which inflates numbers.  Conner is the perfect example of that.  Even Jaylen Samuels.  4.8 YPC, 16 catches for 148 yards.  And if you don't think Mark Ingram or Tevin Coleman are better than either, you're kidding yourself.  Also, why the hype for McGuire?  His 3.3 YPC really impressing you that much?

[Rockice_8]

1 minute ago, barnaby8787 said:

So your argument is that they don't stack the box against Brees?  Then why couldn't Reggie Bush succeed?

Could have been many things.  Couldn't run between the tackles, no vision, injuries who knows.  Doesn't change the fact that Ingram is in a friendly situation and again is about to be 29 coming off a suspension for PED's.  

And yes volume helps Bell no doubt but there is a reason they throw to him often because he's good.

[barnaby8787]

1 minute ago, Rockice_8 said:

Could have been many things.  Couldn't run between the tackles, no vision, injuries who knows.  Doesn't change the fact that Ingram is in a friendly situation and again is about to be 29 coming off a suspension for PED's.  

And yes volume helps Bell no doubt but there is a reason they throw to him often because he's good.

So it must be purely coincidental that Ingram had a higher DVOA than Bell last year, right?

[Rockice_8]

Just now, barnaby8787 said:

Ito Smith, but I get your point.  Also, Pitt runs an RB friendly system which inflates numbers.  Conner is the perfect example of that.  Even Jaylen Samuels.  4.8 YPC, 16 carries for 148 yards.  And if you don't think Mark Ingram or Tevin Coleman are better than either, you're kidding yourself.  Also, why the hype for McGuire?  His 3.3 YPC really impressing you that much?

Ito right.  Ish was a b ball player.  NE is one of the worst run defenses in the league.  One game from Jaylen doesn't mean he's a career 4.8 ypc guy.  Talk about small sample size.

Connor has had a nice season no doubt but was a pretty highly regarded prospect from what I remember no just some nobody.

I'm not comparing McGuire the runner more so McGuire the receiver who has shown to be very competent in that area.  He definitely leaves a lot to be desired as a runner.

Crowell was compared to Ingram and McGuire to Coleman.  Again why spend like 5M on each of them when you can just spend 6-7 more and get Bell and keep any of the other (Crowell, McGuire, Cannon) guys behind him just in case he gets injured.  We are splitting hairs over average running backs when we have 110M to spend in FA.  Go get game changers not career backups. 

[Rockice_8]

6 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

So it must be purely coincidental that Ingram had a higher DVOA than Bell last year, right?

He had a really good season last year probably flying sky on PED's.  The dude is 29 this conversation is pointless.  When you have 110M you don't go sign 29 year old RB's coming off PED suspensions.