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[KBS756]

What do we rank on 3rd down defense ... especially in the 2nd half ?

[SDotNova]

29 minutes ago, KBS756 said:

What do we rank on 3rd down defense ... especially in the 2nd half ?

We need someone with premium access to get that data. I’d be curious too. My guess is we are a bottom 5 team on 3rd downs in the 4th. 

[doumeyer]

47 minutes ago, SDotNova said:

We need someone with premium access to get that data. I’d be curious too. My guess is we are a bottom 5 team on 3rd downs in the 4th. 

We don't need access to data, we need playmakers, and right now we have very little help for Darnold. I don't have to be told where we rank, all I have to is look at the scoreboard at the end of the game and that tells me all I need to know. Lets see what Macc, does with the 100 million we have for the FA market. His first round pick this year he had to land a playmaker who is not a project, whether it is a pass rusher or wide receiver. The first night of the draft we have only one pick in the 62 players who will be drafted that night. If we fail in this offseason, it will set the Jets back another year or two. Look at the trade deadline this year all the teams that are in the Playoff hunt got richer and losers like us walk away with nothing. This week we play Miami, who will start a backup scrub  QB and a team who is in a complete downward spiral, this should be a easy win for us.

BOTTOM LINE WE NEED A NEW coach & GM.

[Rockice_8]

3 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

That simply not true at all. We've constantly outbid other teams for players in FA and inevitably the player doesn't choose us. Just this last off season we had highest bids for Cousins and AR15 and they chose elsewhere (and that's just this last off season). I think its pretty comical actually that some think that just bc we drafted Darnold... that now all these FA will want to to come here. Like last year I fully expect us to have to piece together overspending on guys just to hit the cap floor. Knowing our regime... they'll probably give McCown 12mill bc no one will come here.

Money does talk that is mostly true.  Cousins made nearly 100M in his career already and we slightly outbid MIN by what 6M.  MIN was a team who was nearly in the superbowl, I get why he choose them over us.  For a guy like Cousins that's not a lot of money to go to a contender over a team coming off a 5 win season.  Guys like Fowler have one shot to make money and they typically take it.

Was that ever really confirmed that we we outbid CHI?  We were in the running for guys like Jamie Collins, A-Rob, and Vernon but ultimately were outbid from my understanding.  Mac set his price and the other teams up'ed their offers to secure their guy.

What's comical is that people want to trade controllable assets like 3rd round picks for guys who could walk in 8 games.  If Fowler would take less money to sign elsewhere like you continue to preach here then what does trading for an 8 game rental going to do if he doesn't want to be here?  If he is willing to play here and we offer the best contract then he'll be a Jet.  If he would rather play for a contender then he'll take less or equal to go play for a contender and we wasted a 3rd rounder for nothing.  If we traded a 3rd and he walked for less money to play with a winner that would be a horrible move, just awful.

Based on you thinking we can't sign any FA's then Mac made the smart move to save his picks.  The fact that you wanted to trade for him yet think he won't sign here in FA makes the thought of that trade even worse.  Don't you see how awful that sounds. 

[Bobby816]

1 hour ago, Rockice_8 said:

Money does talk that is mostly true.  Cousins made nearly 100M in his career already and we slightly outbid MIN by what 6M.  MIN was a team who was nearly in the superbowl, I get why he choose them over us.  For a guy like Cousins that's not a lot of money to go to a contender over a team coming off a 5 win season.  Guys like Fowler have one shot to make money and they typically take it.

Was that ever really confirmed that we we outbid CHI?  We were in the running for guys like Jamie Collins, A-Rob, and Vernon but ultimately were outbid from my understanding.  Mac set his price and the other teams up'ed their offers to secure their guy.

What's comical is that people want to trade controllable assets like 3rd round picks for guys who could walk in 8 games.  If Fowler would take less money to sign elsewhere like you continue to preach here then what does trading for an 8 game rental going to do if he doesn't want to be here?  If he is willing to play here and we offer the best contract then he'll be a Jet.  If he would rather play for a contender then he'll take less or equal to go play for a contender and we wasted a 3rd rounder for nothing.  If we traded a 3rd and he walked for less money to play with a winner that would be a horrible move, just awful.

Based on you thinking we can't sign any FA's then Mac made the smart move to save his picks.  The fact that you wanted to trade for him yet think he won't sign here in FA makes the thought of that trade even worse.  Don't you see how awful that sounds. 

When has Macc turned a 3rd into an asset? Please tell me? Jenkins is the closest thing and he’s merely an “average” player (who I actually liked us drafting). But it still plays into my point. We hold onto these draft picks like we have this incredible GM making great picks for us, When that’s not the case at all. I’d rather see us trade the picks (when we have money to spend) on guys that we can keep around. I have no clue if Fowler would have resigned with us. But what I do know... is our chances of signing him would have been WAY better if he was here already.

[KodiakThunder]

20 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

To guarantee him maybe in a jets jersey. You look at it as a rental. I see it as it could’ve been the way to get him to sign here long term. Now we are lucky to get an edge in FA. Let’s nkt forget it’s not like we are great at drafting outside of Round 1... so what would we really be giving up? 

Can we remember that Fowler was gotten for a 3rd next year and a 5th and NO, you don't give up two draft picks on the hope he signs long term. 

The jets can draft their own guys. Not give up multiple picks for a rental that doesnt get us in the playoffs nor has shown to be that good. 

The Jets are rebuilding,  we all knew this. Rebuilding teams dont trade picks for rentals. Khalil Mack wouldve been an exception as that trade was predicated on the team trading for him also signing him. 

Imagine for a minute we make the same trade for fowler.... 

Option 1) he plays amazing and the jets have to resign him for a ton.

Option 2) he plays mediocre and is willing to resign

Option 3) hes terrible and the jets are out two picks.

Now, Fowler was mediocre on a team with a MUCH better d-line/pass rushers than the jets.... is option 1 really that likely? Probably not. 

 

[Bobby816]

4 minutes ago, KodiakThunder said:

Can we remember that Fowler was gotten for a 3rd next year and a 5th and NO, you don't give up two draft picks on the hope he signs long term. 

The jets can draft their own guys. Not give up multiple picks for a rental that doesnt get us in the playoffs nor has shown to be that good. 

The Jets are rebuilding,  we all knew this. Rebuilding teams dont trade picks for rentals. Khalil Mack wouldve been an exception as that trade was predicated on the team trading for him also signing him. 

Imagine for a minute we make the same trade for fowler.... 

Option 1) he plays amazing and the jets have to resign him for a ton.

Option 2) he plays mediocre and is willing to resign

Option 3) hes terrible and the jets are out two picks.

Now, Fowler was mediocre on a team with a MUCH better d-line/pass rushers than the jets.... is option 1 really that likely? Probably not. 

 

You’re leaving out the biggest thing of it. And that’s him not wanting to sign with us now, no matter what money we throw at him. Like I said. I don’t look at it as a rental. At anytime we could sign him for starters if we traded for him. Him also being around teammates might make him want to sign long term if he did hit FA. With us not trading for him, we are a long shot to sign him.

 

And I’ll tell you why drafting an edge doesn’t actually make this team better. Only way we really get an edge better than Fowler is to spend our 1st Rounder in one. So let’s say we do that. We have a solid defense. But still nothing on offense (the side of the ball we need a ton of help at). There’s no impact FAs at skill positions or OL. Meaning the main way to build that up is via draft. And Macc has shown no ability at all to draft offensive talent period, nevermind offensive talent in mid rounds. So we’d be stuck overspending on average FAs and drafting poor. And this very well might be what happens.

[KodiakThunder]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

You’re leaving out the biggest thing of it. And that’s him not wanting to sign with us now, no matter what money we throw at him. Like I said. I don’t look at it as a rental. At anytime we could sign him for starters if we traded for him. Him also being around teammates might make him want to sign long term if he did hit FA. With us not trading for him, we are a long shot to sign him.

 

And I’ll tell you why drafting an edge doesn’t actually make this team better. Only way we really get an edge better than Fowler is to spend our 1st Rounder in one. So let’s say we do that. We have a solid defense. But still nothing on offense (the side of the ball we need a ton of help at). There’s no impact FAs at skill positions or OL. Meaning the main way to build that up is via draft. And Macc has shown no ability at all to draft offensive talent period, nevermind offensive talent in mid rounds. So we’d be stuck overspending on average FAs and drafting poor. And this very well might be what happens.

Your argument is that because macc cant draft he should just trade the picks away. We dont even know if Macc will be making these picks.

The Jets do need offensive help as well, I get that....however our WR core has had a ton of injuries and WR's are easier to get in FA than pass rushers.  

It def pays to draft an OLB early... if not, why is it one of the most heavily drafted positions in the top 10??

If Fowler was signed to a team friendly 2-3 yr deal I'd be fine with it. I find it asinine for a non playoff team to trade for a rental....and that's what he is. Also, if the jets made that trade they would HAVE to resign him to justify the trade.... that means the jets have zero leverage in bargaining. 

[Bobby816]

37 minutes ago, KodiakThunder said:

Your argument is that because macc cant draft he should just trade the picks away. We dont even know if Macc will be making these picks.

The Jets do need offensive help as well, I get that....however our WR core has had a ton of injuries and WR's are easier to get in FA than pass rushers.  

It def pays to draft an OLB early... if not, why is it one of the most heavily drafted positions in the top 10??

If Fowler was signed to a team friendly 2-3 yr deal I'd be fine with it. I find it asinine for a non playoff team to trade for a rental....and that's what he is. Also, if the jets made that trade they would HAVE to resign him to justify the trade.... that means the jets have zero leverage in bargaining. 

I honestly don't think we fire Macc or Bowles unfortunately. So that's why I'm bringing this up. Lets look at Maccs draft history in Round 3.

 

2015: Lozo... no longer with the team. (Tevin Coleman and Duke Johnson were on the board before he traded back our pick FYI).

2016: Jenkins... actually the only mid Round pick of his I actually like (this and Shell... I wanted them both and mocked them to us actually). But he's far from a great edge rusher like a Fowler type guy. He's and edge setter.

2017: Stewart... no longer with the team. Was never a fan of this pick. We actually traded back with the best OC on the board in Elflein and sure enough the Vikings chose him. Last I checked we have a big hole at OC and Elflein could have answered that.

2018: Shepard... I didn't like this pick at all either. Hard to tell in a short time frame. But this wasn't a position of need. Now I know we traded for Anderson later in the draft, so that made this pick look worse post draft. But we needed offense and again didn't get it. OTs Rankin and Brown were who I wanted here.

 

My point is that picks are valuable if you're hitting on them and Macc isn't doing that. Therefore the picks aren't as valuable. I don't see him getting fired, so trading this next years 3rd for a chance to resign Fowler for me, would have been worth it.

[SDotNova]

What are the chances Devin Funchess, Quinton Spain, and Matt Paradis hit Free Agency? The Titans and Broncos seem to have the cap space to bring back their guys. Funchess mayyyybe. But that's a stretch. Any other free agents outside of edge that people are hoping we land? Free Agents that actually have a chance of hitting free agency that is.

Is a trio of Funchess, Enunwa, and Anderson solid? None are legit numbers 1. So it's still more of that pick your poison of numbers 2's type stuff. But at least the three of them are young.

I am really curious to watch Burnett for the rest of the season. He could solidify himself as a number 4 on this team who can come in and spell guys. 

Half way through the season, I'm thinking priorities are:

A Must: New Coach

High Priority Starters: WR, C, LG, Edge, Edge

High Priority Long-Term Prospect: A LT to develop

TBD: Receiving RB

[doumeyer]

7 hours ago, SDotNova said:

What are the chances Devin Funchess, Quinton Spain, and Matt Paradis hit Free Agency? The Titans and Broncos seem to have the cap space to bring back their guys. Funchess mayyyybe. But that's a stretch. Any other free agents outside of edge that people are hoping we land? Free Agents that actually have a chance of hitting free agency that is.

Is a trio of Funchess, Enunwa, and Anderson solid? None are legit numbers 1. So it's still more of that pick your poison of numbers 2's type stuff. But at least the three of them are young.

I am really curious to watch Burnett for the rest of the season. He could solidify himself as a number 4 on this team who can come in and spell guys. 

Half way through the season, I'm thinking priorities are:

A Must: New Coach

High Priority Starters: WR, C, LG, Edge, Edge

High Priority Long-Term Prospect: A LT to develop

TBD: Receiving RB

Yes. your midseason priorities are correct, but how do we do it? At this point of time I have no confidence in Macc, at all that he can make the right moves either in the draft or in FA market. The only hope is that his FA pickups in the past are a lot better than his drafting. If Macc, can pick two top FA players, it will make his drafting a lot easer. This will be Macc, fifth year as GM of the Jets, he has got to turn this team around in the 2019 offseason. How many years are the Johnson's going to give this guy to turn the Jets around?

[mattmanz91]

2 hours ago, doumeyer said:

Yes. your midseason priorities are correct, but how do we do it? At this point of time I have no confidence in Macc, at all that he can make the right moves either in the draft or in FA market. The only hope is that his FA pickups in the past are a lot better than his drafting. If Macc, can pick two top FA players, it will make his drafting a lot easer. This will be Macc, fifth year as GM of the Jets, he has got to turn this team around in the 2019 offseason. How many years are the Johnson's going to give this guy to turn the Jets around?

You have to remember, this will technically be his 3rd offseason as GM, with the actual power to build his team. The first year it was Woody who was basically tying his hands and calling the shots. For example bringing back Revis, then bringing back fitz and trying to win with a team comprised of mostly vets. It was only 2 years ago we really started the tear down and rebuild. 

[doumeyer]

16 minutes ago, mattmanz91 said:

You have to remember, this will technically be his 3rd offseason as GM, with the actual power to build his team. The first year it was Woody who was basically tying his hands and calling the shots. For example bringing back Revis, then bringing back fitz and trying to win with a team comprised of mostly vets. It was only 2 years ago we really started the tear down and rebuild. 

I see you point, but I am worried things won't go right in the offseason. 

[Bobby816]

2 hours ago, mattmanz91 said:

You have to remember, this will technically be his 3rd offseason as GM, with the actual power to build his team. The first year it was Woody who was basically tying his hands and calling the shots. For example bringing back Revis, then bringing back fitz and trying to win with a team comprised of mostly vets. It was only 2 years ago we really started the tear down and rebuild. 

That’s a poor excuse. That has 0 to do with his poor drafting for starters. It also was just portions of our cap space that those guys took up. That has nothing to do with how he spent the rest of the FA money each and every year. He’s been poor. Plain and simple.

[Rockice_8]

18 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

When has Macc turned a 3rd into an asset? Please tell me? Jenkins is the closest thing and he’s merely an “average” player (who I actually liked us drafting). But it still plays into my point. We hold onto these draft picks like we have this incredible GM making great picks for us, When that’s not the case at all. I’d rather see us trade the picks (when we have money to spend) on guys that we can keep around. I have no clue if Fowler would have resigned with us. But what I do know... is our chances of signing him would have been WAY better if he was here already.

Totally 100% irrelevant on what he did in the past.  Our 2nd rounders for years were awful and finally Mac hit on a solid player in Maye.  Mid rounders are important for depth and even if the success rate is low you can't just give them away. 

So your idea is to trade draft picks to increase the chances of signing a guy in FA?  No offense but that is one of the all time dumbest things I've ever read.