Around The League

[Rockice_8]

13 hours ago, SDotNova said:

What are the chances Devin Funchess, Quinton Spain, and Matt Paradis hit Free Agency? The Titans and Broncos seem to have the cap space to bring back their guys. Funchess mayyyybe. But that's a stretch. Any other free agents outside of edge that people are hoping we land? Free Agents that actually have a chance of hitting free agency that is.

Is a trio of Funchess, Enunwa, and Anderson solid? None are legit numbers 1. So it's still more of that pick your poison of numbers 2's type stuff. But at least the three of them are young.

I am really curious to watch Burnett for the rest of the season. He could solidify himself as a number 4 on this team who can come in and spell guys. 

Half way through the season, I'm thinking priorities are:

A Must: New Coach

High Priority Starters: WR, C, LG, Edge, Edge

High Priority Long-Term Prospect: A LT to develop

TBD: Receiving RB

Funchess actually could hit FA but you are going to pay him like a #1 to get him.  A trio of Funchess, Anderson and Q is plenty good especially if Herndon continues to progress.

Tyrell Williams would be a really solid fall back plan though.  He has great size and can do a bit of everything.  I think landing one of those two is high on Mac's list while also keeping Robby and Q.

I would 100% open up the check book for Spain and Barr if they both hit FA.

My gut says both Mac and Bowles get one more year and if we don't make the playoffs in 2019 both get canned.  I'd rather give Bowles and Mac one more year together then higher a new coach and tie him to Mac for another 3-4 years.  If you just higher a coach I think that buys Mac at least another 2-3 years which I'm not ready to commit to.

I think Bowles needs to win these next two games to save his job.  Probably 7 wins buys him another year especially with 100M to spend.  It would be a playoff of bust season in 2019 for both of them which I think might be the better way to go.

I'd feel much better if they cleaned house but I just think Mac gets his chance to spend this money.  

[Bobby816]

9 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Totally 100% irrelevant on what he did in the past.  Our 2nd rounders for years were awful and finally Mac hit on a solid player in Maye.  Mid rounders are important for depth and even if the success rate is low you can't just give them away. 

So your idea is to trade draft picks to increase the chances of signing a guy in FA?  No offense but that is one of the all time dumbest things I've ever read.

And that’s your opinion. I think thinking that a pick that our GM has constantly messed up on is so valuable to not trade it away for a good player for starters, even if he is a FA is dumb. Bc I do believe we could have resigned him once here.

 

You also bring up Maye. For starters he’s overrated clearly by you. He was pretty average last year and has barely played this year. And he was a high 2nd round pick. What on earth does that have to do with a Fowler trade?

[Rockice_8]

7 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

And that’s your opinion. I think thinking that a pick that our GM has constantly messed up on is so valuable to not trade it away for a good player for starters, even if he is a FA is dumb. Bc I do believe we could have resigned him once here.

 

You also bring up Maye. For starters he’s overrated clearly by you. He was pretty average last year and has barely played this year. And he was a high 2nd round pick. What on earth does that have to do with a Fowler trade?

Maye is a solid player.  How is that overrating him?  Guy is a SS playing out of position because of Adams and doing a decent job at it.  I'm not touting him as a star here.

What it has to do with Fowler trade is that just because a 2016 3rd rounder was a miss doesn't mean you miss again in 2019.  Trading a valuable pick to improve your chances at signing a FA is such incredibly bad management there is really no way you could convince any sane person to agree with that strategy.  That's not an opinion that's common sense really.  And for starters it doesn't even guarantee that you improve your chances to resign the player.  That's just your opinion.  

 

[Bobby816]

6 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Maye is a solid player.  How is that overrating him?  Guy is a SS playing out of position because of Adams and doing a decent job at it.  I'm not touting him as a star here.

What it has to do with Fowler trade is that just because a 2016 3rd rounder was a miss doesn't mean you miss again in 2019.  Trading a valuable pick to improve your chances at signing a FA is such incredibly bad management there is really no way you could convince any sane person to agree with that strategy.  That's not an opinion that's common sense really.  And for starters it doesn't even guarantee that you improve your chances to resign the player.  That's just your opinion.  

 

Absolutely that’s my opinion. But I would say it takes common sense to think a players chances of resigning are better if he knows the teammates he’d be playing with and understanding a system for 1/2 a season. My point is merely that I feel that if we traded picks for Fowler we’d be able to resign him. You see him as a rental. That’s where we disagree. And I big time disagree with you on Maccs drafting. Like I stated, if he had a history of hitting on mid round picks then I’d value the picks more. But he’s literally gotten pretty much every mid round pick wrong. Which alters that value of the picks.

[KodiakThunder]

32 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Totally 100% irrelevant on what he did in the past.  Our 2nd rounders for years were awful and finally Mac hit on a solid player in Maye.  Mid rounders are important for depth and even if the success rate is low you can't just give them away. 

So your idea is to trade draft picks to increase the chances of signing a guy in FA?  No offense but that is one of the all time dumbest things I've ever read.

Only 12% of starters were 3rd rounders as of 2014. And theres an 8% chance a 3rd rounder will become all-pro. Truth is, most teams dont hit on their mid round picks. 

Point is, if a GM can hit on 2 or 3 picks in a draft, they're doing above average. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2015/05/22/tracking-nfl-draft-efficiency-how-contingent-is-success-to-draft-position/amp/

[Bobby816]

Just now, KodiakThunder said:

Only 12% of starters were 3rd rounders as of 2014. And theres an 8% chance a 3rd rounder will become all-pro. Truth is, most teams dont hit on their mid round picks. 

Point is, if a GM can hit on 2 or 3 picks in a draft, they're doing above average. 

Exactly. So why not trade those picks for proven players?

[Rockice_8]

8 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Exactly. So why not trade those picks for proven players?

Because you aren't trading for a proven player you are trading for half a season.  

Why not just wait and have your cake and eat it too.  You have a really good chance to sign Fowler in FA if you want him and also keep your 3rd.  If that 3rd rounder hits then you now have two good players instead of possibly having none if Fowler left.

If Fowler signs elsewhere for less than or equal money then he didn't really want to play here to begin with.  Having him for 8 games isn't likely going to influence his decision that much if he prefers to be in a warm city or play in a dome or be close to home or play for a contender (whatever his intentions may be).  Why risk what little guaranteed chances you have to improve (3rd and 5th round picks is what it would have taken) for a guy you can get a few months later for nothing.

 

[Rockice_8]

We need every chance we can get to land good players, not less.  Trading away chances to be one of the lucky teams to hit on a mid rounder is crazy.

[Bobby816]

3 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Because you aren't trading for a proven player you are trading for half a season.  

Why not just wait and have your cake and eat it too.  You have a really good chance to sign Fowler in FA if you want him and also keep your 3rd.  If that 3rd rounder hits then you now have two good players instead of possibly having none if Fowler left.

If Fowler signs elsewhere for less than or equal money then he didn't really want to play here to begin with.  Having him for 8 games isn't likely going to influence his decision that much if he prefers to be in a warm city or play in a dome or be close to home or play for a contender (whatever his intentions may be).  Why risk what little guaranteed chances you have to improve (3rd and 5th round picks is what it would have taken) for a guy you can get a few months later for nothing.

 

And that’s where I disagree. I think without him spending time here to get to know the system and his teammates... we have a very small chance of signing him. Yes we have money. But every off season that proves to not make a difference and a player chooses a contender for less money. Having Darnold here isn’t going to magically make these FAs sign now.

[Dr.O]

It’s not like basketball, Money talks more so than anything else in a sport that most good players have a about and 8 year or so career before they fall off.

[NJerseypaint]

The way I see it, players sign for a two reasons that aren't mutually exclusive.

1. To earn a boatload of money

2. To win

We only offer one of these, while many teams offer both. The guys who want to win are the guys who play the hardest, and the top tier talent that has that drive hasn't decided to sign with us in a very long time. We might be trending the right direction, but any player who wants to win a SB is going to look right past our offer for a team more on the cusp. That's why we lost out on AR15 and Kirk. If we fire Bowles and bring in a fresh offensive mind, we might be able to convince everyone that we're a team that is a few pieces away from a SB.

[Rockice_8]

21 minutes ago, Dr.O said:

It’s not like basketball, Money talks more so than anything else in a sport that most good players have a about and 8 year or so career before they fall off.

Exactly.  The Bears won what 5 games last year and they had like 2 of the biggest FA signings in Burton and Robinson.  As long as you aren't the 0-16 CLE browns or trending in the wrong direction if you pay they will come.  

[NJerseypaint]

3 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Exactly.  The Bears won what 5 games last year and they had like 2 of the biggest FA signings in Burton and Robinson.  As long as you aren't the 0-16 CLE browns or trending in the wrong direction if you pay they will come.  

They also brought in Nagy and fielded a top 10 defense.

[doumeyer]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

And that’s your opinion. I think thinking that a pick that our GM has constantly messed up on is so valuable to not trade it away for a good player for starters, even if he is a FA is dumb. Bc I do believe we could have resigned him once here.

 

You also bring up Maye. For starters he’s overrated clearly by you. He was pretty average last year and has barely played this year. And he was a high 2nd round pick. What on earth does that have to do with a Fowler trade?

I wanted Cook but Macc took Maye, no way did Bob overrate  Maye in fact it you want the truth he has out played Adams since he was drafted. Adams can be a outstanding player but he has been out of position a lot, like is the Bear game where Adams gave up that long TD pass early in the game. IMO Adams is trying to do to much, because of our poor front seven.

[Rockice_8]

1 hour ago, NJerseypaint said:

They also brought in Nagy and fielded a top 10 defense.

We are widely considered a good defense around the NFL for some reason (as fans we know better but that also could be because of our poor offense though).

Playing with Mitch Trubisky wasn;'t some big draw and Nagy wasn't some established HC either.  They had some hope to turn it around and so should the Jets.  The hype around Darnold is real and if we can finally get Q and Robby healthy and finish strong down the stretch playing with Sam should/could become a draw for FA's.

Plus we can pay the most.  We should be a realistic destination for FA's.  Doesn't mean we'll get everyone we want but we also aren't the Giants or Raiders going into a full rebuild.  We should be able to pitch a improving Darnold and that we are pushing towards the playoffs as a pitch to guys.