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Dak - Grown Man


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1 hour ago, DaBoys said:
5 hours ago, quiller said:

In his his dreams could Trent be third best rated QB in the NFL.  NO when I mean produce I mean 2800-3000 yards 18 or so TD’s and under 10 interceptions.  His rookie type numbers.

Dak is not the 3rd best QB in the NFL. Hes not even in the top 20.

Try re reading what he wrote 

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@Matts4313 you get so damn defensive when I say something negative about your bf, and then like clockwork after an hour debate you admit that Dak isn't that good.

 

Just to take up your post again the next day.

 

You need to go look in the mirror and ask yourself which side of the debate your on.

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1 hour ago, DaBoys said:

@Matts4313 you get so damn defensive when I say something negative about your bf, and then like clockwork after an hour debate you admit that Dak isn't that good.

 

Just to take up your post again the next day.

 

You need to go look in the mirror and ask yourself which side of the debate your on.

I think I have been clear. I think there are only a very very few QBs that can carry a team. There are (generously) 4-5 of them in the entire NFL. The chances of us getting one is rare. The last time we had one was Staubach; tho Romo was close. So then we have to drop to tier 2 QBs. AKA the Dalton line. The Dalton line is that huge gap from QBs are "good enough" all the way up to the elite. Think of it as the #5-#20ish range. Finally we have those below the Dalton Line that teams are actively attempting to replace (surprisingly after this last draft, there arent a lot).

 

Dak is above the Dalton line. He is good enough to win if he has enough support. 

 

Right now he doesnt have support. His OC sucks. His OL is playing like crap. His receiving options are weak. And his lone star skill player has been costing us TDs/Yards. We need to expect better from all the above individuals. 

 

Basically we arent giving Dak support. And Dak isnt good enough to win without support. 

 

But you arent going to easily replace Dak. Its near impossible to find a Aaron Rodgers. Hell, even Drew Brees/Peyton Manning weren't able to win playoff games when their team let them down. People win championships all the time with Dalton line QBs if they give their QB enough help. 

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For those of you who are unfamiliar with the term:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/06/nfl-andy-dalton-line-average-nfl-players

Quote

The Dalton Line, the creation of NFL Media’s Chris Wesseling, is a fascinating yet simple concept: In the hierarchy of NFL quarterbacks, which player is the “worst” of the acceptable franchise quarterbacks?

Andy Dalton was considered that guy back when the concept was first developed — hence the name. He was just good enough to build around, but if you had a quarterback below him, you were probably in the market for a new one.

 

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In no order Teir 1:

Tom Brady

Drew Brees

Patrick Mohomes

Philip Rivers

Matt Ryan

Aaron Rodgers

 

Teir 2:

Matthew Stafford 

Big Ben

Jared Goff

Carson Wentz

Russell Wilson

Kirk Cousins

Cam Newton

Andrew Luck

Jimmy G

 

Teir 3:

Deshaun Watson

Joe Flacco 

Andy Dalton

Mitchell Trubisky

Jamis Winston

Alex Smith

Ryan Fitzpatrick 

 

Teir 4:

Case Keenum 

Rookie Baker Mayfield 

Eli Manning

Dereck Carr

Dak Prescott 

Blake Bortles 

Rookie Josh Rosen

Ryan Tannehill

Marcus Mariota

Rookie Sam Darnold 

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20 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

 

 

QBs that can win without a stacked team:

Rodgers

Brady

Wilson

Brees <== even this one is questionable. He has missed the playoffs a ton. He is like super Romo. And Romo couldnt do it with a great team. 

 

Dalton line QBS:

Patrick Mohomes => Has a ridiculous amount of help

Philip Rivers => Had the #1 offense and defense and didnt even win a playoff game

Matt Ryan => Was extremely mediocre without a stacked team

Matthew Stafford => Has never carried his team

Big Ben =>Has never played without a stacked team

Jared Goff

Carson Wentz

Russell Wilson

Kirk Cousins

Cam Newton

Andrew Luck

Jimmy G

Deshaun Watson

Joe Flacco 

Andy Dalton

Mitchell Trubisky

Jamis Winston

Alex Smith

Rookie Baker Mayfield 

Dereck Carr

Dak Prescott 

Ryan Tannehill

Marcus Mariota

Rookie Sam Darnold

Blake Bortles  <=== New Dalton line; which is reflected in his benching. 

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I'm going to say some things about Dak that I like.

 

I like his calm demeanor. 

I like how big and strong he is. After a decade of Romo, his strength and durability are refreshing.

I like his ability to run the ball and use his feet. I wish we could/would use him more like Cam.

While I question his accuracy I don't question his arm strength at all. I think he fires it with plenty of Zip, and can throw as far as one needs and more. 

 

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3 hours ago, WizardHawk said:

 

That's a bit misleading. Blount has a piddly 57 freaking carrys this year, probably in short yardage situations. Zeke has 61 more carrys than Royce Freeman, which is almost as many carrys as Freeman has total. Zeke has 45 more carrys than Collins, which is like 3 games worth of runs.

 

Why don't you compare him to other full time RBs? Like Gurley, Hunt, an AP?

There are only 13 RBs in the league with at least 90 carrys. The only one close in carrys to Zeke is Gurley, who has faced 8 in the box just 9% compared to Zekes 24%. Kareem Hunt is 14%.

 

Excuse me for thinking Zekes 24% on 132 carrys is more impressive than Austin Ecklers 28% on 53 carrys.

 

 

But that's cool. Dak is 21st in total QBR, but let's include all the WR/RBs who came in the game threw a pass and are now 100% passing completion. If you don't set a minimum for attempts then Dak may well fall out of the top 32. 

 

 

What is keeping teams from stacking against Gurley and Hunt?

 

 

 

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Zeke vs 8+ in the box
2016 - 28.08%
2017 - 35.12%
2018 - 24.24%

Defenses don't appear to be too worried about Zeke anymore either. Which if Dak and the WRs/TEs are what is being said of them, we have a much larger issue at play here. 

Just some numbers I was curious about....

Average Cushion vs WR
Beasley - 6.5
Hurns - 5.5
Swaim - 4.7
Gallup - 4.6

Beasley is the only one inside the top 75 here.

Separation yds
Hurns - 1.7
Gallup - 1.7
Beasley - 2.5
Swaim - 4.0

You have to look towards very bottom of list on NextGen to find Beasley, Hurns, and Gallup.

For those interested, avg cushion/separation for Cooper is 6.7yd and 3.8yds, so maybe he can help. I'm not holding my breath though. Whatever the case, Dallas has done a piss poor job within the personnel dept. They said Dez wasn't getting it done, then went out any got some more guys who aren't getting it done either. 

I go back to what I previously said and that is there are much larger issues in play here than simply pointing to Dak or Zeke, or WR/TEs, because quite honestly there is nobody getting it done offensively.  The OL probably needs to carry the brunt of the burden on the field, then we can work our way up from there.

  

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4 hours ago, DaBoys said:

There are only 13 RBs in the league with at least 90 carrys. The only one close in carrys to Zeke is Gurley, who has faced 8 in the box just 9% compared to Zekes 24%. Kareem Hunt is 14%.

Cherry picked stats to its finest. Random 90 carry cut off. Randomly just pulling 2 players, that happen to both be on the most stacked teams in the NFL with 2 of the brightest most creative minds and football. Especially Hunt - BECAUSE HE IS THEIR RECEIVING RB. INGRAM GETS THE SHORT YARDAGE. Lemme guess, White and Bell also dont see the same percentage of stacked boxes? This is basic football 101. If Zeke could catch like those guys, he would face less stack boxes too. But he has a different skill set. 

I bet if we checked, most of those other 11 RBs are closer to Zeke. Which goes back to my point, Zekes doesnt draw some ridiculous about of stacked boxes. Thank you once again for proving my point. But it was a bit misleading how you did it this time.

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3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Cherry picked stats to its finest. Random 90 carry cut off. Randomly just pulling 2 players, that happen to both be on the most stacked teams in the NFL with 2 of the brightest most creative minds and football. Especially Hunt - BECAUSE HE IS THEIR RECEIVING RB. INGRAM GETS THE SHORT YARDAGE. Lemme guess, White and Bell also dont see the same percentage of stacked boxes? This is basic football 101. If Zeke could catch like those guys, he would face less stack boxes too. But he has a different skill set. 

I bet if we checked, most of those other 11 RBs are closer to Zeke. Which goes back to my point, Zekes doesnt draw some ridiculous about of stacked boxes. Thank you once again for proving my point. But it was a bit misleading how you did it this time.

I don't agree with you at all. Teams have literally stated that they are game planning for Zeke, and Zeke only, and his 24% on 132 carrys proves that. 

 

 

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