2018 WEEK 2 Ravens @ Bengals TNF

[diamondbull424]

5 hours ago, RavensDefense3 said:

looking at it objectively. i think CJ getting hurt probably did effect the defense a lot. the first drive he was there we got a three and out, as soon as onwasor was in charge it was all downhill in the first half. so we gave the commands to weddle and the whole 2nd half we only allowed 3 points. what i wana know is who thought it was a good idea to give onwasor the helmet. it seems like it was one of those unlucky days for the defense, and the offense was playing catch up the whole game, they almost did too but the score gap was too much to overcome. i still believe we can be a 11-5 team.

I think this is the right take. I think many are going to overreact after this loss. The Bengals year in and year out are a very solid to good team. They also have had our number for a few years. They caught us on a short week, at home (our guys had to travel) after we had just got done blowing out an unworthy challenger (likely inflating the teams ego some).

So this is good. We aren’t likely to fall into the same ego inflation trap into the season. We now have a proper protocol for when Mosley goes down. And we now have a week and a half to prepare and heal for the next game with a coach in Harbaugh who has historically been very good at gameplanning such games.

———————————————

In terms of some of the complaints, some I can’t argue against such as more pass rusher athleticism on the field. Bowser and Williams should definitely see the field more.

But in terms of the defensive meltdown after Mosley left and as far as Kenny Young not starting, I believe there is sense to it... and they’re related.

The biggest change in the defense this season is the fluidity of players to make on field adjustments and switch the defense on the fly based off of insights. Many plays in game one benefited from said player adjustments (like Ray Lewis and Rex Ryan) So Mosley going out means our defensive QB was gone. Essentially forcing the defense to regress to the vanilla scheme and coverages run by Dean Pees for the last few seasons, only with a less season playcaller.

The benefit we will see with Wink is via the freedom and flexibility he has established in his defense, not necessarily in his ability to be a superior playcaller to more seasoned coaches in that area.

Lastly, in terms of Kenny Young, it wouldn’t surprise me if the only reason he hasn’t fully stolen the starting linebacker spot from Peanut is he doesn’t yet have down the fully complexity of Wink’s defense in terms of the player freedoms and adjustments they are allotted and in what moments they can be made. Though now that Peanut has proven unworthy in that regard (I’m sure coaches were more willing to trust his command of the defensive complexity because of experience), I’d be willing to bet he’s done when Mosley gets back.

[M.10.E]

Sigh...

Still don't understand why we just poop the bed every now and then. There was still tons of time left to run our normal offense. We can't beat good teams with Flacco throwing the ball 40+ times a game, let a lone 50+.

 

Checkdown after checkdown is just inexcusable at that time.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

7 hours ago, RavensDefense3 said:

looking at it objectively. i think CJ getting hurt probably did effect the defense a lot. the first drive he was there we got a three and out, as soon as onwasor was in charge it was all downhill in the first half. so we gave the commands to weddle and the whole 2nd half we only allowed 3 points. what i wana know is who thought it was a good idea to give onwasor the helmet. it seems like it was one of those unlucky days for the defense, and the offense was playing catch up the whole game, they almost did too but the score gap was too much to overcome. i still believe we can be a 11-5 team.

I'm just not buying this narrative.

Apparently this team has 3 players who, without them on the field, our defense cannot stop anything: Brandon Williams, Jimmy Smith and CJ Mosley.

Supposedly those are 3 irreplaceable players, yet every time we lose a single one of them, the entire thing falls apart? Nah, that's not reality, especially when none of those players are top 5 at their respective positions right now.

Mosley wasn't covering AJ Green, or Tyler Boyd, or rushing the passer. The problems weren't with communication and with Peanut having the headset - guys were getting beat off the ball, guys weren't rushing the passer with any sort of motor - guys weren't making tackles. CJ Mosley doesn't change that. Dalton missed a wide open throw on 3rd down in the first drive to punt otherwise it'd be a moot point that "we stopped them on the first drive then couldn't do anything the following drives!".

EDIT: You can't seriously tell me these plays would've been different had Mosley been on the field:

 

[warrenblue]

Honestly, we can blame Flacco or Young's worst game as a Raven, but I barely see the fellows mentioning how badly JH was out-coached by Lewis. 

 

Lewis has had our number for years and JH can't figure out a way to play the bengals. It's pathetic

[M.10.E]

2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I'm just not buying this narrative.

Apparently this team has 3 players who, without them on the field, our defense cannot stop anything: Brandon Williams, Jimmy Smith and CJ Mosley.

Supposedly those are 3 irreplaceable players, yet every time we lose a single one of them, the entire thing falls apart? Nah, that's not reality, especially when none of those players are top 5 at their respective positions right now.

Mosley wasn't covering AJ Green, or Tyler Boyd, or rushing the passer. The problems weren't with communication and with Peanut having the headset - guys were getting beat off the ball, guys weren't rushing the passer with any sort of motor - guys weren't making tackles. CJ Mosley doesn't change that. Dalton missed a wide open throw on 3rd down in the first drive to punt otherwise it'd be a moot point that "we stopped them on the first drive then couldn't do anything the following drives!".

Agreed. When it comes down to it, you need to be better than the guy in front of you. The Bengals just beat us man on man more than we beat them.

[M.10.E]

Just now, warrenblue said:

Honestly, we can blame Flacco or Young's worst game as a Raven, but I barely see the fellows mentioning how badly JH was out-coached by Lewis. 

 

Lewis has had our number for years and JH can't figure out a way to play the bengals. It's pathetic

We got severely outcoached on all facets of the ball. Don't hate going for it on 4th but when you need one or two yards and there is not at least one running play it's so so bad.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, warrenblue said:

Honestly, we can blame Flacco or Young's worst game as a Raven, but I barely see the fellows mentioning how badly JH was out-coached by Lewis. 

 

Lewis has had our number for years and JH can't figure out a way to play the bengals. It's pathetic

Last night there were plenty of us mentioning this. Just to list a few:

• "Benching" Alex Collins in the 2nd half
• Scheming PASSING plays for Buck Allen on 4th and short situations despite repeatedly failing
• Not taking the FG + onside at the end of the game and instead opting to just give up

The list goes on.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Also, let's talk about why we're continuing to play Boyle over Maxx and, more importantly, Mark Andrews:

That's another Harbaugh thing. Usually guys who commit penalties get benched, but somehow Harbaugh has a Hardon for Nick Boyle.

Lastly, snap counts:

Tim Williams and Tyus Bowser got 19 COMBINED snaps last night. Suggs/Judon/Smith all over 45, with Z. Smith at 55. That's simply unacceptable. If it's not clear by now that rotation is horrible, I'm not sure what else we need to see. You spent high draft capital on those guys, why are we REFUSING to use them?!

[wackywabbit]

11 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I'm just not buying this narrative.

I'm buying this narrative.

Definitely a factor. Losing your playcaller mid-game matters.

Games are more complicated than saying everything sucks after a loss and everything's great after a loss. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, wackywabbit said:

I'm buying this narrative.

Definitely a factor. Losing your playcaller mid-game matters.

Games are more complicated than saying everything sucks after a loss and everything's great after a loss. 

I'm sure it does matter - but it just didn't show last night in areas you'd think it would. Guys weren't failing to get lined up. It was just dudes getting beat left and right - and it wasn't Mosley's replacement getting beat repeatedly, either. 

Like I said, Mosley ain't covering AJ Green or Tyler Boyd or rushing the passer, so saying it was his absence that cost us those points is just ridiculous.

[wackywabbit]

1 minute ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I'm sure it does matter - but it just didn't show last night in areas you'd think it would. Guys weren't failing to get lined up. It was just dudes getting beat left and right - and it wasn't Mosley's replacement getting beat repeatedly, either. 

Like I said, Mosley ain't covering AJ Green or Tyler Boyd or rushing the passer, so saying it was his absence that cost us those points is just ridiculous.

Saying it is the only thing wrong with the defense would be ridiculous. That's not what I said. Losing Mosley definitely caused them to shift coverage to the middle of the field. Wefddle even said, they had to leave Tavon Young in 0 coverage against Green and if the rush can't get there (the single biggest problem w/ the defense) then there is no chance for any player. So not having Mosley wasn't the only issue, but it definitely factored into thise plays. The playcalling may have also been simplified due to Mosley not being there. Way more standard man2man looks this game.

[SalvadorsDeli]

I know the offensive line was bad last night but I can't get over how inaccurate Flacco was. He got bailed out plenty last night - the throw into triple coverage that turned into the long Brown completion, the long DPI, etc. - and just kept MISSING on easy throws - behind his receivers, slightly out of their reach, etc. The fumble that basically ended the game was a perfect Flacco play in that he gets to plausibly blame the offensive line, but it still came down to him having zero awareness and not being able to throw on the run. After all of these years I'm still holding my breath on 3rd and 4th downs not that we complete the pass but just that Flacco just gives the receiver a chance at making a play at all and throws it in the right zip code at least. 

You could tell just from how much he was puffing his chest about beating the Bills (compared to guys like Suggs rightly emphasizing it was just one game) like he had already proven all the haters wrong that he just doesn't get it. Lamar isn't ready yet but I hope to god he's ready by 2019. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Ah yes, right on cue.

 

[coordinator0]

1 hour ago, BaltimoreTerp said:

I know the offensive line was bad last night but I can't get over how inaccurate Flacco was. He got bailed out plenty last night - the throw into triple coverage that turned into the long Brown completion, the long DPI, etc. - and just kept MISSING on easy throws - behind his receivers, slightly out of their reach, etc. The fumble that basically ended the game was a perfect Flacco play in that he gets to plausibly blame the offensive line, but it still came down to him having zero awareness and not being able to throw on the run. After all of these years I'm still holding my breath on 3rd and 4th downs not that we complete the pass but just that Flacco just gives the receiver a chance at making a play at all and throws it in the right zip code at least. 

You could tell just from how much he was puffing his chest about beating the Bills (compared to guys like Suggs rightly emphasizing it was just one game) like he had already proven all the haters wrong that he just doesn't get it. Lamar isn't ready yet but I hope to god he's ready by 2019. 

Yeah, I posted something similar a couple pages back that got buried. I just don't trust Joe with anything at this point. He's not accurate enough to win with the offense being run the way it is. Unless you're playing to Bills.

[DreamKid]

13 minutes ago, BaltimoreTerp said:

He got bailed out plenty last night - the throw into triple coverage that turned into the long Brown completion, the long DPI, etc.

3rd &15, down 21 to 0? I'm glad he stood tall and gave our best receiver a chance to make a play.

16 minutes ago, BaltimoreTerp said:

and just kept MISSING on easy throws - behind his receivers, slightly out of their reach, etc. The fumble that basically ended the game was a perfect Flacco play in that he gets to plausibly blame the offensive line, but it still came down to him having zero awareness and not being able to throw on the run. 

Flacco needs to hit those. I'm guessing those missed hook ups with Snead and Crabtree will be a point of emphasis with Urban this week.

I think the fumble play was designed. Not the fumble itself of course, but I think it was designed the same way as the Flacco to Brown Deep Pass in the Bills game. I don't think Marty anticipated the Bengals blitzing a DB on it though, Flacco couldn't get the throw off in time.

 

Flacco missing on throws he can make was an issue but it didn't cost us the game. Recent woes from Flacco have earned him more criticism and rightly so, but already the discussion surrounding him is getting out of control. 

Quarterbacks in the NFL will miss passes, make bad decisions, and leave you scratching your head at times. From Brady and Rodgers all the way down to Gabbert and Peterman. There are very few error free games from even the greats at the position. Some will hold onto the ball too long, try to make too much happen, etc. Let's not act like Flacco is the only QB in the NFL who doesn't have mistake free performances. Just as last game didn't make him the only QB in the league to have great games, this game doesn't make him the only QB in the league to wish for a do over.

The Offensive Line played bad, we had no running game, we were down big early, the coordinators called a bad game, and the Bengals DBs played great. When all of those conditions are met, how many QBs are going to have great games?

Again, that doesn't excuse Flacco missing on throws he can make, but let's keep this analysis in the proper light. 

Flacco's play has significantly improved from last year, which is obvious. However from the small sample size we've been given so far this season(2 games), it appears his accuracy is still volatile week to week. He threw fine in horrible conditions last week, but missed on some easy throws this week. Joe made some great plays, but also left a couple on the field. He needs to step up even more, that's obvious.