germ-x Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, broncofan48 said: I think what he’s referring to is DT is always grabbing some dinged up something, always. And he’s always stayed on the field like you’ve said. But I think he’s mentally soft, he’s always worried about something hurting instead of playing through and that’s also what leads to the drops. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, broncofan48 said: I think what he’s referring to is DT is always grabbing some dinged up something, always. And he’s always stayed on the field like you’ve said. But I think he’s mentally soft, he’s always worried about something hurting instead of playing through and that’s also what leads to the drops. If you see most of the drops, what you are seeing is him making the next move. It's maddening, because it's totally mental. As far as the hits - At 6'4, 225, the flip side to that is as he's lost his elite explosion - he's such an easy target to get a lick on. Today was an excellent example of that. People are trying to tie 2 things together - drops, and being soft. Reality is that guys where it happens, it's not likely related. Drops are definitely a legit flaw in his game that belong in his resume (can't get off press the other big one he's never had). He should never be seen as the classic complete alpha WR for that reason. But what he did well...man, he's done at an elite level in his prime, and the skills left still make him a very effective possession/RZ/box-out guy. Just not worth keeping at his cap # anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncofan48 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Broncofan said: If you see most of the drops, what you are seeing is him making the next move. It's maddening, because it's totally mental. At 6'4, 225, the flip side to that is as he's lost his elite explosion - he's such an easy target to get a lick on. Today was an excellent example of that. People are trying to tie 2 things together - drops, and being soft. Reality is that guys where it happens, it's not likely related. It's definitely a legit flaw in his game (can't get off press the other big one he's never had). He should never be seen as the classic complete alpha WR for that reason. But what he did well...man, he's done at an elite level in his prime, and the skills left still make him a very effective possession/RZ/box-out guy. Just not worth keeping at his cap #. Like I said mentally soft. Making the next move happens sometimes but there’s other drops too. And if it’s constantly making a move before securing the ball and it keeps happening over and over that’s a severe flaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 18 minutes ago, germ-x said: I don’t disagree with the previous posts. I am by no means acting like Thomas was a scrub WR that Denver could have easily replaced. His 2-3 years with Manning and operating in the screen game were unreal. Not just in the screen game either, he could get it done down field. However, for a 6’3” 225 pounder with 4.4 speed he had limitations. Primarily he drops passes and most of those seem to come in big moments (like today). On another note, and I’ll get burned for this, I think he’s been soft. He’s literally been hurt from the day he was drafted, at times walking off grabbing a finger. He constantly wants off the field. On the flip side, Sanders will do anything to keep his arse on it and has taken more big shots and fought for as many yards as Thomas. Completely false. He's the opposite of soft. His body can't take the NFL pounding yet he hasn't missed a game since 2011. Hate on his body if you want. He's been a freaking warrior for this franchise since he's been here. This is what it all comes back to with DT though. Because of the frame and athleticism people expected him to be elite like Julio or Hopkins etc. He's just never been that good skill wise. He peaked as a top 5-10 receiver as opposed to a top 1-5 receiver and people were never happy about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, broncofan48 said: Like I said mentally soft. Making the next move happens sometimes but there’s other drops too. And if it’s constantly making a move before securing the ball and it keeps happening over and over that’s a severe flaw Hey, no argument there. Drops and not being able to beat press are what separated DT when he was at his peak from being a true elite WR. They are more prominent now because his game-breaking ability is now pretty much gone. People just attribute a different trait (being soft) to the flaw they can't explain (drops) for a guy so talented, when there's often no cause/effect. A guy who plays 100+ games in a row, and keeps playing even when we are getting our *sses handed to us (last 2 years, and SB48) isn't mentally soft. It's just easier to label him that way. Either way, it's doubtful we're going to get consensus on this, this isn't a new convo lol. I don't have anything new to add, but I'll end on my end saying it's good if this is the biggest debate we can have this week. We have a much bigger list of problems that are likely to come up (pass D Q's, pass pro vs. better pass rushes, TE coverage, and of course, what Keenum really is as a QB). But easier to take this week with a high-character W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncofan48 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, champ11 said: Completely false. He's the opposite of soft. His body can't take the NFL pounding yet he hasn't missed a game since 2011. Hate on his body if you want. He's been a freaking warrior for this franchise since he's been here. This is what it all comes back to with DT though. Because of the frame and athleticism people expected him to be elite like Julio or Hopkins etc. He's just never been that good skill wise. He peaked as a top 5-10 receiver as opposed to a top 1-5 receiver and people were never happy about it. I love DT think he’s a ring of famer but he’s always lacked something. I think he’s soft in the same way Peyton was. And that’s ok but it’s far to criticize especially with the big drops he had today those aren’t physical issues at all. Except for von he was my fav player in the manning years but he wasn’t perfect and that’s all people are saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncofan48 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Broncofan said: Hey, no argument there. Drops and not being able to beat press are what separated DT when he was at his peak from being a true elite WR. They are more prominent now because his game-breaking ability is now pretty much gone. People just attribute a different trait (being soft) to the flaw they can't explain (drops) for a guy so talented, when there's often no cause/effect. A guy who plays 100+ games in a row, and keeps playing even when we are getting our *sses handed to us (last 2 years, and SB48) isn't mentally soft. It's just easier to label him that way. Either way, it's doubtful we're going to get consensus on this, this isn't a new convo lol. I don't have anything new to add, but I'll end on my end saying it's good if this is the biggest debate we can have this week. We have a much bigger list of problems that are likely to come up (pass D Q's, pass pro vs. better pass rushes, TE coverage, and of course, what Keenum really is as a QB). But easier to take this week with a high-character W. I will disagree on drops and being soft being related. It’s why kickers get the yips or Peyton folded in the playoffs all those years. It’s all a mental issue and some guys have it others don’t. You put Sanders will and mental makeup in DTs body and you have an insane WR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, broncofan48 said: I love DT think he’s a ring of famer but he’s always lacked something. I think he’s soft in the same way Peyton was. And that’s ok but it’s far to criticize especially with the big drops he had today those aren’t physical issues at all. Except for von he was my fav player in the manning years but he wasn’t perfect and that’s all people are saying Absolutely fair to criticize him. I just don't think he's soft. I think a lot of the narrative around DT is questioning his commitment / physical toughness and I don't agree with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, broncofan48 said: I will disagree on drops and being soft being related. It’s why kickers get the yips or Peyton folded in the playoffs all those years. It’s all a mental issue and some guys have it others don’t. You put Sanders will and mental makeup in DTs body and you have an insane WR Your past 3 posts I couldn’t have said better myself. Especially with DT. Just always something missing and it’s the mental toughness. Still a terrific player and like you I am not doubting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncofan48 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, champ11 said: Absolutely fair to criticize him. I just don't think he's soft. I think a lot of the narrative around DT is questioning his commitment / physical toughness and I don't agree with it I think the dude cares a lot Super Bowl 48 prime example. I’m just meaning the drops today and the game as a whole are a microcosm if what’s kept him from being an elite WR. Maybe soft is the wrong word but he lacks that edge or whatever it may be that separates the very good from the great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, broncofan48 said: I think the dude cares a lot Super Bowl 48 prime example. I’m just meaning the drops today and the game as a whole are a microcosm if what’s kept him from being an elite WR. Maybe soft is the wrong word but he lacks that edge or whatever it may be that separates the very good from the great. I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncofan48 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Just now, champ11 said: I agree I just wonder with his declining athleticism if Sutton starts making the plays he’s so close to doing how soon is it Sutton and Sanders as the top 2 WRs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, broncofan48 said: I just wonder with his declining athleticism if Sutton starts making the plays he’s so close to doing how soon is it Sutton and Sanders as the top 2 WRs I'd hold on 2018 before saying that. WR's take time. Sutton made an insane TD grab, but he also really had a brutal bobble on that 1H bomb. He'd have to learn a new position, when he's just getting the position he's playing now down. 2014 kinda spoiled our expectations on rookie WR's (unless it was ours lol) - but pretty much outside of Michael Thomas (and even then it was year 2 he really exploded), it's hard for a rookie WR to be even a top 2 WR for their own team. His skill profile replaces DT a lot better than Sanders, so I think it's pretty clear who's leaving after this year. But rookies take time, other than CB's in man schemes (because it's pretty easy what you do), ILB's and RB's. The other positions, the learning curve is sooooo steep. It's no coincidence Lindsay and Freeman are having the most impact, and we see rookies flash year in and year out - once they show pass pro is OK, the rest is pretty easy compared to what other skill positions need to learn. I credit the college system's spread O's as so bad for QB's and OL/WR's...but man, they are a better fit to get RB's ready for NFL life, especially for the Lindsay skill-set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncofan48 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 As for the game: Lindsay is quite the find OL looked good again even Billy Turner ?!? CB depth and talent is a major issue and will be a focus in the offseason IMO Still can’t cover TEs. This is a WC team if everything goes right I think. Pats with Gronk will be too much, Jags D is too good, and Chiefs offense will be way too much for our D (until Andy Reid Happens) but it should be a decent season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Collinsworth trying to defend Manning is hilarious dude. This guy still starting is malpractice. This league man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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