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GDT Week 2: OAK @ DEN


Broncofan

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1 minute ago, champ11 said:

Collinsworth trying to defend Manning is hilarious dude. This guy still starting is malpractice. This league man 

Yea he’s awful.  It’s almost like they felt bad for breaking his starting streak and gifted him this season.  Could be such an exciting offense with OBJ, Barkley, Engram and Shepard

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5 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Collinsworth trying to defend Manning is hilarious dude. This guy still starting is malpractice. This league man 

 

2 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

Yea he’s awful.  It’s almost like they felt bad for breaking his starting streak and gifted him this season.  Could be such an exciting offense with OBJ, Barkley, Engram and Shepard

Barkley looks special.   And still....you draft Darnold every time.  SMH @ Gettleman there.

Factor in that Barkley costs 31.2M for 4 years, and 45M/5 IIRC....man, you go franchise QB each and every time.  You have the franchise QB, different story, but man, that's going to haunt the Gmen for a decade+.  And I say that even though I'm a HUGE believer in Barkley.

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1 minute ago, broncofan48 said:

Yea he’s awful.  It’s almost like they felt bad for breaking his starting streak and gifted him this season.  Could be such an exciting offense with OBJ, Barkley, Engram and Shepard

It's insane dude. They have a guy that can't even move playing QB in a nationally televised game. This is why people watch the NFL and are like wtf 

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I almost forgot to add for THE GOOD for our game:

6.  Special Teams - King's 51 yard average, and a great net.  And good coverage.   And of course McManus making the key kicks (which hey seems automatic - until you see that NINETEEN kicks were missed today ouch lol).    

In a tight game our improvement on ST's was another key.  Good to see.

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BTW not enough attention has been paid to the play that turned the game around - down 19-7, 4th and 1, and Gruden calls play-action - but to their FB, who drops the ball.  To be fair, it was wide open for 15-20 yards, but it was a case of getting cute when really all they needed to do was power run...or have a pass catching back there.   For all of the character we showed, that play was a game-turner.  They probably get 3 more points at minimum , and drain at least 2 more minutes, if not more.  HUGE play there.

Full credit to us for taking advantage and getting back into the game, but that's a play the OAK fans will going what-if for this week for sure.

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3 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

BTW not enough attention has been paid to the play that turned the game around - down 19-7, 4th and 1, and Gruden calls play-action - but to their FB, who drops the ball.  To be fair, it was wide open for 15-20 yards, but it was a case of getting cute when really all they needed to do was power run...or have a pass catching back there.   For all of the character we showed, that play was a game-turner.  They probably get , and drain at least 2 more minutes, if not more.  HUGE play there.

Full credit to us for taking advantage and getting back into the game, but that's a play the OAK fans will going what-if for this week for sure.

On that play Chubb was there but inexplicably turned his back to the fullback to i think cover the guard eligible way down the field?

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14 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

BTW not enough attention has been paid to the play that turned the game around - down 19-7, 4th and 1, and Gruden calls play-action - but to their FB, who drops the ball.  To be fair, it was wide open for 15-20 yards, but it was a case of getting cute when really all they needed to do was power run...or have a pass catching back there.   For all of the character we showed, that play was a game-turner.  They probably get 3 more points at minimum , and drain at least 2 more minutes, if not more.  HUGE play there.

Full credit to us for taking advantage and getting back into the game, but that's a play the OAK fans will going what-if for this week for sure.

No, it was a great call and execution up until the dropped ball.  You guys stuffed us on 3rd and 1 several times so they mixed it up and our guy couldn’t make a play.  

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Okay so I haven't had time to read through the whole thread and reply to all your reactions to the game. I will.

But I want to start with the overall thoughts and feelings I have on this team as a whole. I'm waiting for this group to show me something that gives me a confidence boost that we can win games against, you know, good teams. The Raiders and, strange as it sounds to say, the Seahawks, are pretty hapless teams right now. Both are in major transition periods and we needed some breaks to get wins against both. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about 2-0 and I do LOVE the heart, fire and moxie with which the team plays. Those don't show up in the box score but the team is well-stocked in those areas, it's a kicking-and-screaming group and we know that is important to Elway. 

Case's intangibles remain his greatest attribute, his physical short-comings are what they are. That being said he needs to be careful working within the system; I think Musgrave has actually done a pretty good job in both games exploiting match-ups and putting the offense in positions to be successful and making necessary adjustments. Case, who is a smart guy and a savvy player with a chip on his shoulder (and I love that about him), needs to know he has to work within the system. I know he wants to live up to his contract and be thought of as a franchise QB. But someone needs to take him aside and basically just say, "Bro, you're not Aaron Rodgers, and that's okay." 

Our secondary is not quite garbage but it's closer to garbage than it is the famed No Fly Zone. Who would have thought that getting rid of a Hall of Fame CB and a Hall of Fame defensive coordinator would have such an effect. 

I still have little faith in Vance. I don't really know how anyone can have any faith in him. 

Phillip Lindsay has been getting a ton of hype locally - the CU and Denver South HS connections no doubt play a huge part in that with the local media - but take away his 53-yard run today and his YPC drops to a very pedestrian 4.15. I hope Vance and Sullivan and the rest of the staff don't start trying to use him as an every-down back because he won't hold up for 16+ games. He brings a unique skill set to the table but he's a niche player, and that's fine because all great teams have niche players (look at New England the last 18 years) so I hope the staff will recognize that and deploy him the right way to make the most of what he can do, which is substantial. 

We will get a much better feel of what this team is - I still say we're a .500ish team - the next two weeks with an early game on the East Coast next week and then a date with the Chiefs (who look incredible) on MNF the week after. 

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1 minute ago, daineraider said:

No, it was a great call and execution up until the dropped ball.  You guys stuffed us on 3rd and 1 several times so they mixed it up and our guy couldn’t make a play.  

I have no problem with the call, but the personnel was just iffy.   Smith isn't a natural pass catcher.  He was converted from LB to FB in 2016, and it shows.  It's not like he's Jusczyk, or Janovich, a FB who can pass catch.  Of course, that's why it was so open, but there was risk there that the results bore out.  

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1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

BTW not enough attention has been paid to the play that turned the game around - down 19-7, 4th and 1, and Gruden calls play-action - but to their FB, who drops the ball.  To be fair, it was wide open for 15-20 yards, but it was a case of getting cute when really all they needed to do was power run...or have a pass catching back there.   For all of the character we showed, that play was a game-turner.  They probably get 3 more points at minimum , and drain at least 2 more minutes, if not more.  HUGE play there.

Full credit to us for taking advantage and getting back into the game, but that's a play the OAK fans will going what-if for this week for sure.

Said it when it happened with the 4th down play.  Gruden got cute a few times in this game and it cost them a win.  I’m actually a Gruden fan, but he’s an HC that wants the recognition of his playcalls and mind winning games, which is maybe a strength, but his biggest weakness.

Gruden and the Oakland staff out coached Denver in every aspect until it came to game changing calls, where VJs 4th down go for it on the goal line, with Musgrave making a gutsy QB draw call.  Gruden tried matching with his own gutsy calls when he didn’t need too. 

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8 minutes ago, germ-x said:

Said it when it happened with the 4th down play.  Gruden got cute a few times in this game and it cost them a win.  I’m actually a Gruden fan, but he’s an HC that wants the recognition of his playcalls and mind winning games, which is maybe a strength, but his biggest weakness.

Gruden and the Oakland staff out coached Denver in every aspect until it came to game changing calls, where VJs 4th down go for it on the goal line, with Musgrave making a gutsy QB draw call.  Gruden tried matching with his own gutsy calls when he didn’t need too. 

I didn't have a problem with the call, it was there for the taking and we had stuffed the run several times in short yardage situations.  But part of that play-call that seemed iffy was because the FB Smith is a total zero in the pass game.   Converted from LB in college and 2 years on ST's to FB in 2016.   Like I said before, this wasn't Jusczyk or Janovich sliding out - it was a converted LB.   And a T eligible out deeper.  Play call could be defended - the personnel really couldn't.   I don't blame DEN for not accouting for either.  Of course if Gruden pulls it off and they win, he's a genius.  But it doesn't take a genius to see that a converted LB as the sole pass catcher had risk.  Which bit OAK hard.

Truthfully OAK did more than enough to win the game....but didn't.   Just like we did everything last week to dominate...but barely eked out a W.   The margin for error is just that thin.   Still, it wasn't like OAK handed it to us on a plate - the team showed a lot of tenacity and character here.  Even if we aren't any more than a 7-9/8-8 team this year....this is the kind of statement game you want the young guys to experience.  All good there.

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3 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

I didn't have a problem with the call, it was there for the taking.  But part of that was because the FB Smith is a total zero in the pass game.   Converted from LB in college and 2 years on ST's to FB in 2016.   Like I said before, this wasn't Jusczyk or Janovich sliding out - it was a converted LB.   And a T eligible out deeper.  Play call could be defended - the personnel really couldn't.   I don't blame DEN for not accouting for either.  Of course if Gruden pulls it off and they win, he's a genius.  But it doesn't take a genius to see that a converted LB as the sole pass catcher had risk.  Which bit OAK hard.

Truthfully OAK did more than enough to win the game....but didn't.   Just like we did everything last week to dominate...but barely eked out a W.   The margin for error is just that thin.

Don’t disagree.  But with how poor Denver’s offense was the Raiders had no need to get gutsy.  They could’ve came out 2nd half and been overly conservative and won this game.  Hell they even were given a call when Lynch was stopped short of a 1st down and Gruden still felt the need to be aggressive....his biggest flaw.  This L was on Gruden and no one else.

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7 minutes ago, germ-x said:

Don’t disagree.  But with how poor Denver’s offense was the Raiders had no need to get gutsy.  They could’ve came out 2nd half and been overly conservative and won this game.  Hell they even were given a call when Lynch was stopped short of a 1st down and Gruden still felt the need to be aggressive....his biggest flaw.  This L was on Gruden and no one else.

I think we should recognize the 1H was a large part due to Gruden's week of planning.   He really does a good job there.  He's just not great at 2H adjustments right now - and I think that's not just being cute - but he's been out of the game a while, and in-game adjustments now are a lot different than back when he coached regularly.   LAR and now DEN really adjusted back to his gameplan, with excellent results in the 2H.   Something to watch for. 

For all of the very questionable personnel decisions Gruden seems to have signed off on (and that's where I think OAK is in trouble, it's not like Gruden's history of QB or other personnel development screams GM material, but he's got those powers in OAK), I think he's a very strong fundamentals, and film-breakdown-and-planing coach.  In-game adjustments though are a very clear area where he's getting schooled right now.   It will be interesting to see if he adapts and how long it takes.

So while I agree the L falls a large part due to Gruden's 2H lack of adjustment and key calls - his 1H success got the team there.  But yeah, the blame also comes with the accolades.   It's kind of like Andy Reid - his in-game adaptability, clock management and getting-too-cute is his biggest weakness, and negates Reid's outstanding player development and in-week preparation.  It's no coincidence a disciple off his coaching tree who decided to be the complete 180 of Reid in-game led PHI to the SB.    If you had Musgrave's adaptability and creativity blended in with Gruden's week of prep - that would be quite the combo IMO.

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