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33 minutes ago, Adrenaline_Flux said:

I have no idea what you're blabbering on about or trying to insinuate, but thanks for showing without a doubt that you drastically missed the point, lmao.

The point I was making was that this fanbase seems to have this idea that Franchise QBs should be easy to find and should always be able to be found in the middle of the season hiding as the QB3 on someone's roster or as the grocery bagger at a Hy-Vee. (this is a wide generalization, however)

This is true at times.  But then, a lot of desperate teams and their fanbases are like this.  And the Jaguars are a desperate situation.  We haven't had a franchise guy since...ever really.  You watch enough trash and everything starts to look good i guess.

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I'm excited to have that rookie QB starter excitement again. It's very interesting watching a guy develop week to week.

Granted, with Gabbert it was extremely frustrating and with Bortles the ups and downs have just been..........bizarre.

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3 hours ago, Jaguarfan said:

I'm excited to have that rookie QB starter excitement again. It's very interesting watching a guy develop week to week.

Granted, with Gabbert it was extremely frustrating and with Bortles the ups and downs have just been..........bizarre.

Yeah.  There's something to be said for the fun "mystery box" factor.  Of course, it could be anything...even a frustrating Gabbert or a yo-yoing Bortles.  But there's naturally that glimmer of hope that they could be something that doesn't suck.

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I’m not even excited for a rookie QB.

Expecting Dave Caldwell to draft a quality player at the top of the draft? Couldn’t be me.

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4 hours ago, pwny said:

I’m not even excited for a rookie QB.

Expecting Dave Caldwell to draft a quality player at the top of the draft? Couldn’t be me.

I do feel like at this point, we've probably seen enough in Caldwell's QB preferences to expect that even if they do draft someone relatively high...it'll likely be someone who lacks some of the most important attributes of a quality NFL passer and thrower of the football, in favor of some other less relevant traits.

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15 hours ago, Adrenaline_Flux said:

I have no idea what you're blabbering on about or trying to insinuate, but thanks for showing without a doubt that you drastically missed the point, lmao.

The point I was making was that this fanbase seems to have this idea that Franchise QBs should be easy to find and should always be able to be found in the middle of the season hiding as the QB3 on someone's roster or as the grocery bagger at a Hy-Vee. (this is a wide generalization, however)

No, I didn't. Just because they are hard to find doesn't mean you stick with someone who isn't good. You can tie up $20M for an average QB or you can tie up $5m for an average QB.

This is David Garrard all over again. Blake had one good year thanks to a good defense and a good running game making things easier for him and we extend him.

And while Gabbert failed and Bortles too, that doesn't mean we were wrong for drafting QBs and trying to replace David.

Just because we picked the wrong QB doesn't mean it was the wrong idea, because there were better options it turns out. We just made the wrong pick.

The point I made (which you missed because you were too insistent on being "right" that you can't see the forest through the trees) is that teams with BETTER qb situations than us (both now and in the past) have used a pick on QB to give them some upside as a backup or as eventual replacements.

I could argue that the Chiefs were in the EXACT same position as us this off season the year they took Mahomes. And while they are now looking at one of the most dangerous players in the league after letting Mahomes sit a year behind Smith, we will be going into next season pulling our hair outs as Blake plays his Jeckyll and Hide game whilr the talent on our defense deteriorates from old age or purging due to salary restrictions 

Edited by Speedyg

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9 hours ago, Tugboat said:

Yeah.  There's something to be said for the fun "mystery box" factor.  Of course, it could be anything...even a frustrating Gabbert or a yo-yoing Bortles.  But there's naturally that glimmer of hope that they could be something that doesn't suck.

Oh hey they don't grow on trees! No need to look for an upgrade!

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1 hour ago, Tugboat said:

I do feel like at this point, we've probably seen enough in Caldwell's QB preferences to expect that even if they do draft someone relatively high...it'll likely be someone who lacks some of the most important attributes of a quality NFL passer and thrower of the football, in favor of some other less relevant traits.

Im not sure we really know Dave's preference. He's only used one pick on a QB until this past draft with Lee. Two picks (one being a 6th rounder) is a small sample size. And while the two were big QB types, I'm not sure they fit the same mold.

Lee has a big gun and can throw inaccurate darts. Bortles has a wind up that results in a weird wobbling ball. 

Not to mention we've seen Dave (or our team at least) take players especially in the later rounds with connection to our coaches, and Lee's former coach is on our staff. Besides, I'd argue Lee is also a bit of a TC pick (John Quinn anyone?)

But, what is brutal with the Bortles pick is that Dave kept it from EVERYONE.

He was Dave's pick, and his alone. His scouts, his HC, didn't know who our pick was going to be until hours before.

When that pick doesn't pan out, that has to be on him.

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1 hour ago, Speedyg said:

No, I didn't. Just because they are hard to find doesn't mean you stick with someone who isn't good. You can tie up $20M for an average QB or you can tie up $5m for an average QB.

This is David Garrard all over again. Blake had one good year thanks to a good defense and a good running game making things easier for him and we extend him.

And while Gabbert failed and Bortles too, that doesn't mean we were wrong for drafting QBs and trying to replace David.

Just because we picked the wrong QB doesn't mean it was the wrong idea, because there were better options it turns out. We just made the wrong pick.

The point I made (which you missed because you were too insistent on being "right" that you can't see the forest through the trees) is that teams with BETTER qb situations than us (both now and in the past) have used a pick on QB to give them some upside as a backup or as eventual replacements.

I could argue that the Chiefs were in the EXACT same position as us this off season the year they took Mahomes. And while they are now looking at one of the most dangerous players in the league after letting Mahomes sit a year behind Smith, we will be going into next season pulling our hair outs as Blake plays his Jeckyll and Hide game whilr the talent on our defense deteriorates from old age or purging due to salary restrictions 

When did I ever say that we shouldn't be continuing to try to find a franchise QB?

A lot of our fanbase has this notion that we can find an upgrade outside of this team right now to come in immediately which is silly. That was my point. All this other stuff you're talking about is completely irrelevant from what I was saying.

Also, cut out the crap in the bolded.That's not necessary and does nothing for the discussion.

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9 hours ago, Speedyg said:

Im not sure we really know Dave's preference. He's only used one pick on a QB until this past draft with Lee. Two picks (one being a 6th rounder) is a small sample size. And while the two were big QB types, I'm not sure they fit the same mold.

Lee has a big gun and can throw inaccurate darts. Bortles has a wind up that results in a weird wobbling ball. 

Not to mention we've seen Dave (or our team at least) take players especially in the later rounds with connection to our coaches, and Lee's former coach is on our staff. Besides, I'd argue Lee is also a bit of a TC pick (John Quinn anyone?)

But, what is brutal with the Bortles pick is that Dave kept it from EVERYONE.

He was Dave's pick, and his alone. His scouts, his HC, didn't know who our pick was going to be until hours before.

When that pick doesn't pan out, that has to be on him.

We've had more indications than just the draft picks though.  We've seen where their interest tends to gravitate in the pre-draft process.  We've also seen which types of quarterbacks they haven't been interested in and/or have passed over, which can also tell you something.  We've also seen what they do as far as other "veteran" QBs on and around the roster.

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He’s also drafted three QBs. None of them are accurate. 

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18 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

It's not like Dave is going anywhere. He has done plenty-well in the draft to be let go if Bortles never pans out. 

How has he done plenty well? He's missed on four of his five first round picks, including three selected in the top 5. He's been so bad at drafting that over half of our entire roster are players who were undrafted coming into the league, the most in the league by a significant margin. He has had five seasons to build a roster and we still have virtually no depth anywhere. Shatley and Fowler are legit the only two decent depth players on our entire roster after 5 seasons of building.

And his Free Agent gets are no better. He’s spent large sums of money on like 25 different players and something like 5 of them have had even positive value for more than one season - and about half of them all have been absolute dumpster fire acquisitions from the start.

 

And also - he would be the second GM in NFL history to survive missing on a QB. You really think he's worthy of being mentioned with Ozzie Newsome?

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6 hours ago, pwny said:

How has he done plenty well? He's missed on four of his five first round picks, including three selected in the top 5. He's been so bad at drafting that over half of our entire roster are players who were undrafted coming into the league, the most in the league by a significant margin. He has had five seasons to build a roster and we still have virtually no depth anywhere. Shatley and Fowler are legit the only two decent depth players on our entire roster after 5 seasons of building.

And his Free Agent gets are no better. He’s spent large sums of money on like 25 different players and something like 5 of them have had even positive value for more than one season - and about half of them all have been absolute dumpster fire acquisitions from the start.

 

And also - he would be the second GM in NFL history to survive missing on a QB. You really think he's worthy of being mentioned with Ozzie Newsome?

Honestly, he came in here preaching this "scorched earth" teardown and "rebuild through the draft"...but realistically, much of the "core" of our team has actually been built through FA after the draft thing failed to gain any real traction.  He's hit on maybe half a dozen guys in the draft that could be considered long-term "core players"?  Jalen, Telvin, Yan...maybe Jack, Linder, and Fournette if he can ever be healthy?  Basically ~1 per year, while drafting at the top of each round pretty much every year?  It's honestly kinda shocking how many of our best players are just "throwing money at good FAs"...of which he's thrown money at some absolute turds along the way too.  Even on the "good ones"...it's a huge part of why our cap situation is about to go from "just fine" to "seriously challenging" the second some of our core homegrown core talent needs new deals.

I mean, especially when you look at the only strong component of our team, the defense.  You start to break it down by starters and it's like:

DLine: 1/4 starters drafted.

Secondary: 1/5 starters drafted.

LBers: 2/3 starters drafted (maybe 3/3, but really it's more like 2/2 i guess).

 

He's also used all the magic bullets in his gun with coaching changes.  Good heavens did he milk that first coaching hire for all it was worth before finally making a change too.

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4 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

Honestly, he came in here preaching this "scorched earth" teardown and "rebuild through the draft"...but realistically, much of the "core" of our team has actually been built through FA after the draft thing failed to gain any real traction.  He's hit on maybe half a dozen guys in the draft that could be considered long-term "core players"?  Jalen, Telvin, Yan...maybe Jack, Linder, and Fournette if he can ever be healthy?  Basically ~1 per year, while drafting at the top of each round pretty much every year?  It's honestly kinda shocking how many of our best players are just "throwing money at good FAs"...of which he's thrown money at some absolute turds along the way too.  Even on the "good ones"...it's a huge part of why our cap situation is about to go from "just fine" to "seriously challenging" the second some of our core homegrown core talent needs new deals.

I mean, especially when you look at the only strong component of our team, the defense.  You start to break it down by starters and it's like:

DLine: 1/4 starters drafted.

Secondary: 1/5 starters drafted.

LBers: 2/3 starters drafted (maybe 3/3, but really it's more like 2/2 i guess).

 

He's also used all the magic bullets in his gun with coaching changes.  Good heavens did he milk that first coaching hire for all it was worth before finally making a change too.

Yeah, I just did a breakdown in the other thread and I count all of 15 players he’s brought in since 5 years ago that have given more than one season worth of value to the team. For all the scorched earth rebuilt and the attempts to give guys he’s brought in a chance, he’s found next to no sustainable talent. 

He’s had a dozen of what I would classify as marquee moves meant to move the team towards a championship level - either massive money spent on a Free Agent or a top 5 pick - and he’s hit on three of them; Jalen (which I contend all but the the dumbest GMs in history would have made that pick there), Calais and Bouye.

 

And the thing with the misses in both Free Agency and the draft, it’s not just that they’re not top tier cornerstone players, it’s that basically none of them are even scab starter backup types. Once you get past AJ Cann and Dante Fowler, there isn’t a single player that he’s brought in that I can even say I’m happy is on the team.

We have 5 decent depth players on the roster; Yeldon, Shatley, Fowler, Blair Brown and Abry. Of those guys, only Shatley and Fowler could probably actually not be a completely disaster if they were forced into a starting role for more than a game or two. I’m hard on him, but Fowler is the only chance we have on the entire roster of having a *guy who could start but is hidden behind better talent*, and I’m personally not even sure that’s the case with him.

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