Jump to content
wackywabbit

Bills to start Josh Allen; Peterman era over

Recommended Posts

No brainer here. Peterman is one of the worst QBs I’ve ever seen and even though I don’t think the world of Allen, he’s at least got upside. Plus, some experience shouldn’t hurt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IDK if anyone but Ravens fans watched the last quarter of a 40 point blowout, but Allen looked pretty decent, especially when you factor in weather, opponent, drops, and pressure. His mobility is going to be needed behind that line.

I think people are way too down on him as a prospect. People usually underrate the guys who get the not ready to play label. It's not that hard to come in and play QB in today's game. Allen's flashed good enough throwing traits from what I've watched of him since the off-season.

In general, if your QBoTF gives you a better chance to win now than the Vet, it's a no-brainer to play him in any situation.

Edited by wackywabbit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, that doesn't seem like the greatest idea, but they certainly can't go back to Peterman...and they kinda made their bed by sticking Allen into the end of that first game and having him look better.

 

It's not specifically about being "too soon" timeline-wise to me.  At some point, you're gonna have to start Allen with no games started, and he's gonna have to learn and take his lumps.  In today's NFL...you're probably going to learn more by doing, rather than sitting on the bench.

It's about being "too soon" in that Buffalo don't look ready to support him with competent insulation offensively.  Allen has the mobility and the mentality to potentially actually survive in that inhospitable environment.  But as a prospect, two of the biggest things i'd have thought you want to groom out and steer him away from are: 1)The occasionally happy feet where he gets to just running around because he (rightfully) doesn't trust his OLine, and 2)The Hero Ball complex where he can make stupid decisions while trying to put the entire team on his back and finds himself as the only guy who can make a play.  This Bills situation is just going to completely reinforce those traits/tendencies.

He might actually end up looking competent and surviving in the short-term.  But when you get a prospect like that, it's gotta be about the long-term...where if you want to turn those tools into something really special, you needed to get him into a situation where he can actually learn to play within himself, letting other players make plays for him sometimes.  You're not going to lose that natural arm talent, mobility, and the mentality to go gunslinger when needed, by getting him in an insulating system with good surrounding talent.  But with this Bills situation, you very well may lose the ability to groom some of those more unhinged tendencies out of his game, after an entire year of reinforcing those "survival habits" at the NFL level.

Out there with a porous OLine, a best receiving weapon who apparently doesn't know where to line up, and a running game that's going nowhere behind that line to take focus off him.  That's bad news man.

Edited by Tugboat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

No brainer here. Peterman is one of the worst QBs I’ve ever seen and even though I don’t think the world of Allen, he’s at least got upside. Plus, some experience shouldn’t hurt.

I mean, there's quite a few really talented QBs who were thrown onto crappy teams with horrible OL and/or receivers which ended up doing real damage to their development. David Carr is the perfect example... all those sacks made him jittery in the pocket and he could never really trust his receivers. There is such a thing as negative experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said:

I mean, there's quite a few really talented QBs who were thrown onto crappy teams with horrible OL and/or receivers which ended up doing real damage to their development. David Carr is the perfect example... all those sacks made him jittery in the pocket and he could never really trust his receivers. There is such a thing as negative experience.

And there are examples of QBs with rocky rookie seasons that come back strong. Works both ways. 

Also, people like to bring up Blaine Gabbert or David Carr when discussing guys who have their development damaged. How exactly do you know that Carr wouldn’t have been exactly who he turned out to be, even if he sat?

Point being, of rookie QBs who start, only a handful will be good anyway. Who’s to say the ones that flame out do so because of their development being shot and not just because they suck?

Edited by Yin-Yang

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

And there are examples of QBs with rocky rookie seasons that come back strong. Works both ways. 

Also, people like to bring up Blaine Gabbert or David Carr when discussing guys who have their development damaged. How exactly do you know that Carr wouldn’t have been exactly who he turned out to be, even if he sat?

Point being, of rookie QBs who start, only a handful will be good anyway. Who’s to say the ones that flame out do so because of their development being shot and not just because they suck?

Because it makes sense? Losing confidence is going to hurt most, and there are certain habbits one picks up playing behind such a putrid OL that is undesirable with an adequate one. This was visibly obvious to anyone watching David Carr , as his pocket presence got worse and worse. And this doesn't even go into the increased chance of injury from playing behind an OL that can't properly protect its QB.

Moreover, QBs who have successful careers after flaming out early in their career are more of the exception than the rule. Most franchise quality QBs in this league found some measure of success early in their careers. I can really only think of a handful of QBs who were fed to the wolves in this manner who ended up working out..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should have traded Mack to the Bills. 

Edited by Totty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Combination of Peterman absolutely sucking, and a division rival starting a rookie QB who looked pretty good forced the Bills to believe they might have something special too.

Oh Bills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said:

Because it makes sense? Losing confidence is going to hurt most, and there are certain habbits one picks up playing behind such a putrid OL that is undesirable with an adequate one. This was visibly obvious to anyone watching David Carr , as his pocket presence got worse and worse. And this doesn't even go into the increased chance of injury from playing behind an OL that can't properly protect its QB.

It’s obvious a good OL, good receivers, a strong running game, and a good HC will help any quarterback. I wouldn’t doubt for a second that plenty of guys get a lot out of sitting and learning, especially behind a veteran. But I don’t buy the theory that these rookie QBs are so mentally fragile that a bad rookie campaign will end their careers. I think players that that has happened to were never mentally strong enough to play in this league anyway. 

And even bringing up Carr, who I do believe was shell shocked in a god awful offense, doesn’t support that this sort of thing is somehow the norm or all that common. 

10 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said:

Moreover, QBs who have successful careers after flaming out early in their career are more of the exception than the rule.

Successful QBs in general are more the exception than the rule. 

You can look at guys who sit, and there will be more busts than booms. You can look at guys that play right away, and there will be more busts than booms. You can look at first round QBs, and there will be more busts than booms. You can look at any QB archetype, and there will be more busts than booms.

10 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said:

I can really only think of a handful of QBs who were fed to the wolves in this manner who ended up working out..

Peyton Manning? Steve Young? Jared Goff? Alex Smith? Matthew Stafford? Eli Manning? That’s not even bringing up marginal seasons like Derek Carr’s, Joe Flacco’s, Matt Ryan’s, or Carson Wentz’. Granted not all of those guys were being blocked by parking cones or throwing to mannequins, but there are certainly a fair share of QBs that were “fed to the wolves” or didn’t “enjoy success early in their career”.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

It’s obvious a good OL, good receivers, a strong running game, and a good HC will help any quarterback. I wouldn’t doubt for a second that plenty of guys get a lot out of sitting and learning, especially behind a veteran. But I don’t buy the theory that these rookie QBs are so mentally fragile that a bad rookie campaign will end their careers. I think players that that has happened to were never mentally strong enough to play in this league anyway. 

And even bringing up Carr, who I do believe was shell shocked in a god awful offense, doesn’t support that this sort of thing is somehow the norm or all that common. 

Successful QBs in general are more the exception than the rule. 

You can look at guys who sit, and there will be more busts than booms. You can look at guys that play right away, and there will be more busts than booms. You can look at first round QBs, and there will be more busts than booms. You can look at any QB archetype, and there will be more busts than booms.

Peyton Manning? Steve Young? Jared Goff? Alex Smith? Matthew Stafford? Eli Manning? That’s not even bringing up marginal seasons like Derek Carr’s, Joe Flacco’s, Matt Ryan’s, or Carson Wentz’. Granted not all of those guys were being blocked by parking cones or throwing to mannequins, but there are certainly a fair share of QBs that were “fed to the wolves” or didn’t “enjoy success early in their career”.

Of the guys you listed only Peyton, Stafford, and Alex Smith had a really poor supporting cast. And all of them except Smith found success in some form their rookie seasons. And I'm not sure 49ers fans would think Smith was worth the first pick for them. And it's not just confidence -there's also working on mechanics that are harder to develop when a quarterback is actively playing and health factors to consider. The Bills are a dumpster fire on offense... I'm not sure if any first year starter you listed were even close. If they had some decent blockers or receivers, this would be a different story. But that's not the case, he will have no help. And there's certainly a lot of potential harm that can be done by throwing in a QB that everyone knew was raw in the first place. I'm not saying it can't work out, but I definitely don't think the Bills are putting him in the best position to succeed by starting him now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TheKillerNacho said:

I definitely don't think the Bills are putting him in the best position to succeed by starting him now.

Agree with you here. 

And I also agree that Allen’s situation with the Bills right now is a lot closer to David Carr’s than it is most of the other QBs I just mentioned (sans maybe Derek or Goff). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I watched the Bills Bengal preseason game. Allen was running for his life for the entire first half. 

I didn't bother watching any of the ravens bills game, how did their OL look?

 

What will the weather be like in Buffalo this weekend? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, TheKillerNacho said:

What ever gave you that idea?

He wears #2...Just like Jamarcus Russell!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They're basically just stacking mistakes here, now. Trying to fix one really bad decision with another one is not going to help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×