Contract years, Cobb vs CMJ.

[Shanedorf]

[Kepler]

41 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Pipes used to be bigger before peyton's hookup sold everyone out

[OneTwoSixFive]

50 minutes ago, Kepler said:

Pipes used to be bigger before peyton's hookup sold everyone out

That's a bit of a Sly comment.

[snackattack]

2 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I think Cobb probably has a shot at getting another deal in GB, but it will be for far less money this time around. 

Agree, mainly because I wouldn't be surprised that Cobb would be willing to accept less money.  Pretty sure he turned down a few million more from another team when he re-signed with us.

[palmy50]

I'll say this. Mathews is much closer to the end than Cobb is IMO. I hate that Cobb contract though. I'd love to have Cobb back next year with a better number in the books. Cobb just got very lucky that Nelson went down in Cobb's contract year. He'll never see TD numbers like that again and the contract made them think twice about doing some of the stuff with Cobb that made Cobb great to begin with.

[Golfman]

On 9/13/2018 at 10:56 AM, jleisher said:

I know during our mock drafts for this season many discussed cutting either Cobb or Matthews.  After game one, looks like Cobb is the keeper.  I know this is only game #1 with 15 or more to go, but Matthews needs to step it up.  

I don't re-sign either of them. Matthews is clearly not the player he once was. He's not worthy of a contract even in the 5 a year range. Not sure he'll get much interest. I think this could be the case of keeping a guy 1 year too long as opposed to cutting him one year too early. It's only one game, but he looked TERRIBLE. Definitely need to address EDGE in the draft next year. 

Cobb had a great game, but we've got 4 young guys who are going to demand targets by next year. That is NOT counting Allison. MVS, St. Brown Moore and Kumerow all have really good upside. Cobb may have himself a great year and get paid, but I hope it's not us. 

I think the jury is out on Ha Ha and wouldn't give Wilkerson big money on a long-term deal on a bet. That was tried once and didn't go well for the Jets.

[TransientTexan]

10 hours ago, palmy50 said:

I'll say this. Mathews is much closer to the end than Cobb is IMO. I hate that Cobb contract though. I'd love to have Cobb back next year with a better number in the books. Cobb just got very lucky that Nelson went down in Cobb's contract year. He'll never see TD numbers like that again and the contract made them think twice about doing some of the stuff with Cobb that made Cobb great to begin with.

I think Cobb's extension actually came before Nelson's injury. I agree Cobb would be fine at a lower number. What is an almost exclusively slot WR worth in the NFL? Seems like 75+% of the NFL makes do with slot WR's under $5m. And about half of the 25% that are above 5m do alot more than slot work. Is he worth 7m?

[palmy50]

6 hours ago, TransientTexan said:

I think Cobb's extension actually came before Nelson's injury. I agree Cobb would be fine at a lower number. What is an almost exclusively slot WR worth in the NFL? Seems like 75+% of the NFL makes do with slot WR's under $5m. And about half of the 25% that are above 5m do alot more than slot work. Is he worth 7m?

Could be wrong there. I'd need to look it up. I just remember they needed to play him on the boundary far more in the 14 season than usual and he pulled in 12 TD's. Played out very well for Cobb in a contract year but also made that a tough contract to swallow when he moved back inside for the large majority of his reps. Contracts like that also make you think twice about playing them in the return game. Do you really think Davis is a better return man than Cobb?

[AlexGreen#20]

2 hours ago, palmy50 said:

Could be wrong there. I'd need to look it up. I just remember they needed to play him on the boundary far more in the 14 season than usual and he pulled in 12 TD's. Played out very well for Cobb in a contract year but also made that a tough contract to swallow when he moved back inside for the large majority of his reps. Contracts like that also make you think twice about playing them in the return game. Do you really think Davis is a better return man than Cobb?

Cobb has never looked near as effective on the boundary as he did in the slot to me. I've never really seen any indication that he can win vertically with his lack of height, and that's not going to get better as the tires are getting pretty close to bare on him.

The contract that he has for a pure slot guy isn't great. The way the slot position is changing with bigger guys stepping into that role (mostly older boundary guys) who can kinda spread the field deep is a significant change. Where that leaves Cobb next year is going to be an interesting story line. Given my choice, I'd still rather be lining up Jordy in the slot than Cobb if the plan was to be done with both after the end of this season. 

[Greg C.]

So maybe Cobb's relative lack of production has mostly been a product of him being overshadowed by other receivers. If that's the case, maybe he'll be more productive this season. It's still hard to see how he would be worth a big contract next year, though, with all of the young talent on the roster. 

[Leader]

3 hours ago, palmy50 said:

Do you really think Davis is a better return man than Cobb?

If the context here is for the 2018 season - its kind of moot as Davis is gone till week 8 - or later - or at all.
If we're talking 2019 - I doubt Davis will be on the team. It doesnt appear he's evolved as a WR.

That said, in terms of pure return yards - perhaps Cobb is better. We've never seen him handle the duty for a season. All the rancor and "noise" surrounding Davis not with standing and applying the "Allison rule" to him - he proven he isnt a bum at it. He gains positive yards and doesnt muff the ball.

But - in my mind at least, Davis does have value holding the return duties down in that he produces while keeping a front line starter - on the sidelines. We've seen the "next man has to rotate up and produce" scenario - fail - more times than I care to relive. I speak of our WR and secondary positions. It was a combo depth, talent and experience issue. The next guys up were less than terrific or their production prodigious.

This year we have front line talent across the board in the secondary - good. I'd prefer they be left alone to apply their skills in the secondary. The team will benefit most. Now we have some young guns ready to take snaps at WR - good. If Cobb gets hurt in the return game - I think we've got some dynamic talents that can be exploited.

[cannondale]

2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Cobb has never looked near as effective on the boundary as he did in the slot to me. I've never really seen any indication that he can win vertically with his lack of height, and that's not going to get better as the tires are getting pretty close to bare on him.

The contract that he has for a pure slot guy isn't great. The way the slot position is changing with bigger guys stepping into that role (mostly older boundary guys) who can kinda spread the field deep is a significant change. Where that leaves Cobb next year is going to be an interesting story line. Given my choice, I'd still rather be lining up Jordy in the slot than Cobb if the plan was to be done with both after the end of this season. 

Not sure about that. Nelson's late season slides after the catch reminded me a bit of Lofton late in his career. Maybe getting a bit gun shy. I'll always remember him for his sideline body control and catching passes thrown 3 yards out of bounds. A lot of season left, but early indications are that Allison should be able to easily match anything Nelson had left, and for 9 million cheaper. If Graham can't cover part of the red zone side of that equation, then obviously a mistake was made there. The Jared Cook thing still boggles my mind and I hope that someday we'll hear what the hell happened.

Releasing Nelson a year earlier than Cobb also makes the transition to the younger guys a little less abrupt, although I doubt that was part of the decision making. If Nelson were still around, the young guys wouldn't be getting a sniff

The only thing left is for one of the rookies to step up and create that 4th string talent mismatch we've had in the past. 

[jleisher]

16 hours ago, Golfman said:

I don't re-sign either of them. Matthews is clearly not the player he once was. He's not worthy of a contract even in the 5 a year range. Not sure he'll get much interest. I think this could be the case of keeping a guy 1 year too long as opposed to cutting him one year too early. It's only one game, but he looked TERRIBLE. Definitely need to address EDGE in the draft next year. 

Cobb had a great game, but we've got 4 young guys who are going to demand targets by next year. That is NOT counting Allison. MVS, St. Brown Moore and Kumerow all have really good upside. Cobb may have himself a great year and get paid, but I hope it's not us. 

I think the jury is out on Ha Ha and wouldn't give Wilkerson big money on a long-term deal on a bet. That was tried once and didn't go well for the Jets.

Interesting!

[mikemike778]

16 hours ago, Golfman said:

I don't re-sign either of them. Matthews is clearly not the player he once was. He's not worthy of a contract even in the 5 a year range. Not sure he'll get much interest. I think this could be the case of keeping a guy 1 year too long as opposed to cutting him one year too early. It's only one game, but he looked TERRIBLE. Definitely need to address EDGE in the draft next year. 

Cobb had a great game, but we've got 4 young guys who are going to demand targets by next year. That is NOT counting Allison. MVS, St. Brown Moore and Kumerow all have really good upside. Cobb may have himself a great year and get paid, but I hope it's not us. 

I think the jury is out on Ha Ha and wouldn't give Wilkerson big money on a long-term deal on a bet. That was tried once and didn't go well for the Jets.

Its only one game. Obviously if he plays like this for the rest of the year then you wave goodbye without any offer. If he plays better then I would offer him a one year cheap deal (5m would be pushing it though) as depth.

Cobb depends on a lot of things although I wouldn't be offering him a massive deal regardless. His arrow will be pointing downwards at this point and always have to be wary of how someone does in a contract year. 

There's a lot of stuff we have to address in the draft. People might not like it but OT is absolute number 1 priority. Rodgers can't take hits like he used to do that is clear - an OK line is no longer good enough it has to be elite. You get the O Line sorted first both starters and depth then sort out the rest of the team. OLB desperately needs some draft love. If we don't get lucky and hit on the rookie receivers then an early receiver is needed - you can't neglect offense every year and get away with it. So that's 3 players we might need in the first round so far   .......   Saints doing their bit so far though just need them to lose another 15 and we can trade away the 1 overall for loads of first round picks and all sorted.

 

[AlexGreen#20]

50 minutes ago, cannondale said:

Not sure about that. Nelson's late season slides after the catch reminded me a bit of Lofton late in his career. Maybe getting a bit gun shy. I'll always remember him for his sideline body control and catching passes thrown 3 yards out of bounds. A lot of season left, but early indications are that Allison should be able to easily match anything Nelson had left, and for 9 million cheaper. If Graham can't cover part of the red zone side of that equation, then obviously a mistake was made there. The Jared Cook thing still boggles my mind and I hope that someday we'll hear what the hell happened.

Releasing Nelson a year earlier than Cobb also makes the transition to the younger guys a little less abrupt, although I doubt that was part of the decision making. If Nelson were still around, the young guys wouldn't be getting a sniff

The only thing left is for one of the rookies to step up and create that 4th string talent mismatch we've had in the past. 

Still have yet to see any evidence that Nelson was phoning it in with the baseball sliding. I just went through all of his targets against the Panthers. There wasn't one baseball slide.