Can Bailey Bail Us Out?

[Ozzy]

7 minutes ago, Worm Guts said:

They are doing something wrong, they’re picking the wrong players. Kicking is a personnel issue.

Daniel Carlson was 198 for 198 in kicking extra points in his four year starting career in the SEC at Auburn.  Was 92 for 114 kicking field goals so 80% and scored 474 points in his career and leads the SEC all time in scoring.  Sure he was not great as a senior but starting at a big time program for four years in a row is impressive and those statistics are impressive.  Oh and he punted even as a freshman 8 times for 40 yards a punt which I find pretty impressive in itself as a true freshman for a big time program.  You go ahead and try and figure out what kicker is mentally tough after two games in the NFL.  Freaking kidding me, they wanted a kicker and they drafted the best one possible in the draft and he was easily the best place kicker in the draft.  Great no but best available and beat out Forbath for the job.  

 

Oh no he is mentally weak and they are picking the wrong guys, he was the only one to pick in the draft and was one of freaking two placekickers drafted this year.  Yeah get him because he was the only option, sure helps a guy like Bailey is just sitting around to take.  Will see how his superior mental toughness works, oh wait they cut him on Dallas because he missed field goals at his highest rate of his career last year.  It is not as simple of an issue as you make it out to be.  

[RpMc]

Percentage on college extra points largely means nothing unless it’s a poor percentage... given that they still kick 19 yard kicks, correct?

[Worm Guts]

6 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Daniel Carlson was 198 for 198 in kicking extra points in his four year starting career in the SEC at Auburn.  Was 92 for 114 kicking field goals so 80% and scored 474 points in his career and leads the SEC all time in scoring.  Sure he was not great as a senior but starting at a big time program for four years in a row is impressive and those statistics are impressive.  Oh and he punted even as a freshman 8 times for 40 yards a punt which I find pretty impressive in itself as a true freshman for a big time program.  You go ahead and try and figure out what kicker is mentally tough after two games in the NFL.  Freaking kidding me, they wanted a kicker and they drafted the best one possible in the draft and he was easily the best place kicker in the draft.  Great no but best available and beat out Forbath for the job.  

 

Oh no he is mentally weak and they are picking the wrong guys, he was the only one to pick in the draft and was one of freaking two placekickers drafted this year.  Yeah get him because he was the only option, sure helps a guy like Bailey is just sitting around to take.  Will see how his superior mental toughness works, oh wait they cut him on Dallas because he missed field goals at his highest rate of his career last year.  It is not as simple of an issue as you make it out to be.  

How good is Robert Aguayo? Drafted in the 2nd round a cut a year later.

Kicking is a technique that these guys are supposed to know by the time they get to the NFL. I can’t tell you what separates the good from the bad, but it’s not Priefer’s job to teach them how to kick. It’s Priefers job to come up with return schemes and coverage schemes and make sure his players execute those schemes. Priefer is not a kicking coach, we do not have a kicking coach because kickers are supposed to have mastered that technique by the time they get to the NFL.

[Ozzy]

3 minutes ago, Worm Guts said:

How good is Robert Aguayo? Drafted in the 2nd round a cut a year later.

Kicking is a technique that these guys are supposed to know by the time they get to the NFL. I can’t tell you what separates the good from the bad, but it’s not Priefer’s job to teach them how to kick. It’s Priefers job to come up with return schemes and coverage schemes and make sure his players execute those schemes. Priefer is not a kicking coach, we do not have a kicking coach because kickers are supposed to have mastered that technique by the time they get to the NFL.

True, and maybe it is drafting kickers out of big time programs but they do that because they assume that they are in pressure situations constantly.  And yes they are in the SEC but yes Blair Walsh kind of dipped as a senior in percentage and so did Carlson at Auburn.  Both were big time SEC kickers and maybe that is the issue, assuming they deal with pressure well just because they went to a big school and had success.  But to say Carlson did not have a good career is wrong and he should get more of a shot to succeed than just two games.  Sure maybe not for this Vikings team but for some team would not be surprised if he got a shot if a team needs it.

 

Regardless the Vikings needed a kicker and drafted basically the only one they could get come draft time.  Yes Aguayo was drafted very high and was a really good kicker in college, yet mentally was missing in the NFL and that got in his head.  But to say a majority of kicking of it is psychological is wrong I feel.  It is about mechanics sure but if mentally you think you will miss before you even attempt it, guess what....  Thus maybe the coaching they are getting is not exactly proper.  Back a few years Priefer was accused a calling Kluwe a homosexual or whatever it was.... so yeah is not the easiest guy to get along with and is hard on his kickers and special teams guys.  Yeah they have not had much success at those positions yet had a good return game with Patterson so he gets that credit I suppose.  Thus I question it.

 

Will see what happens, but to me it is not all Carlson's fault completely, he was not mentally prepared and no players do not know how to automatically mentally prepare themselves for pressure situations...  I love being harsh on players and getting rid of them if needed, but again it seems super odd this happened and pretty sure it has never happened in the NFL before.  Sucks for that kid, no doubt, but does not mean the next kicker will be great when this happened to the guy ahead of him...

[RpMc]

Never. Draft. Kickers.

most of the best in the game today were undrafted. 

[Worm Guts]

7 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

True, and maybe it is drafting kickers out of big time programs but they do that because they assume that they are in pressure situations constantly.  And yes they are in the SEC but yes Blair Walsh kind of dipped as a senior in percentage and so did Carlson at Auburn.  Both were big time SEC kickers and maybe that is the issue, assuming they deal with pressure well just because they went to a big school and had success.  But to say Carlson did not have a good career is wrong and he should get more of a shot to succeed than just two games.  Sure maybe not for this Vikings team but for some team would not be surprised if he got a shot if a team needs it.

 

Regardless the Vikings needed a kicker and drafted basically the only one they could get come draft time.  Yes Aguayo was drafted very high and was a really good kicker in college, yet mentally was missing in the NFL and that got in his head.  But to say a majority of kicking of it is psychological is wrong I feel.  It is about mechanics sure but if mentally you think you will miss before you even attempt it, guess what....  Thus maybe the coaching they are getting is not exactly proper.  Back a few years Priefer was accused a calling Kluwe a homosexual or whatever it was.... so yeah is not the easiest guy to get along with and is hard on his kickers and special teams guys.  Yeah they have not had much success at those positions yet had a good return game with Patterson so he gets that credit I suppose.  Thus I question it.

 

Will see what happens, but to me it is not all Carlson's fault completely, he was not mentally prepared and no players do not know how to automatically mentally prepare themselves for pressure situations...  I love being harsh on players and getting rid of them if needed, but again it seems super odd this happened and pretty sure it has never happened in the NFL before.  Sucks for that kid, no doubt, but does not mean the next kicker will be great when this happened to the guy ahead of him...

I’m not saying Carlson wasn’t a good college kicker but he fell apart the moment we cut Forbath. For some reason it seems like he couldn’t handle the pressure of this being his job.  Maybe given time he would figure it out, maybe not. I’m just thinking we put too much emphasis on finding a big leg.

[gopherwrestler]

Ok first post not out of frustration from yesterday. I am happy with this. I realize Bailey struggles of late, but something had to be done. We could not go on with him as the kicker and take a chance with him missing field goals to lose games. 

 

We signed the best available kicker and we can move on. 

[Cearbhall]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Has that ever happen in the NFL that quickly?  A team drafts a kicker which that does not happen all that much either, then cuts them after game two.

Yeah, it isn't unheard of for a team to draft a kicker and that kicker to not make it to week three of their rookie season with that team. Most recently, the Bengals drafted a kicker in the fifth round last year and had that kicker lose a training camp kicking competition to the incumbent. 

The Bengals waived him and put him on their practice squad. Things turned out just fine for Jake Elliott. He got a nice ring at the end of his rookie year.

Daniel Carlson will probably land on his feet somewhere. Good for him. The Vikings needed to move on.

Late Add:

The Redskins drafted a kicker a few years ago that never made their opening day roster after being beaten out for the job by Kai Forbath.

Who is John Potter? A kicker drafted the same year as Blair Walsh that never attempted a FG for the team that drafted him before being cut.

Taylor Mehlhaff was a Wisconsin kicker drafted by the New Orleans Saints ten years ago. He didn't make their opening day roster. The Vikings signed him after that year and cut him at the end of camp too. Not all drafted kickers make it in the league.

In the same year that Mehlhaff was drafted, Seattle drafted a kicker too. That kicker also never made a kick for Seattle. His NFL career ended with 1 field goal attempted and missed. He did hit his three extra points.

Back in the 80s the St Louis Cardinals drafted a kicker in the second round. He was bad and didn't ever have a second season in the league with the Cardinals or anyone else. We all know about the Bucs trading into the second for Robert Aguayo. They needed to cut their losses early too. Sure, it was longer than after the second game for these two, but they were second round picks too.

[Robb_K]

Was Bailey checked out by team doctors Monday?  And did he do some kicking?  Or will he arrive Tuesday?  In any case, Even if he starts practicsing Wednesday, he should have enough work together with his snapper and holder to kick for The Vikings next Sunday.

[Ozzy]

2 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

Yeah, it isn't unheard of for a team to draft a kicker and that kicker to not make it to week three of their rookie season with that team. Most recently, the Bengals drafted a kicker in the fifth round last year and had that kicker lose a training camp kicking competition to the incumbent. 

The Bengals waived him and put him on their practice squad. Things turned out just fine for Jake Elliott. He got a nice ring at the end of his rookie year.

Daniel Carlson will probably land on his feet somewhere. Good for him. The Vikings needed to move on.

Good point, maybe it happens more than I remember.  Still two games into the season like this, very odd to me, hope he gets another chance somewhere else.    Jake Elliott was a awesome kicker on Memphis, big time leg I thought and sure just like any other position draft a guy based on their leg talent.  In terms of kicking talents is arguably better than Carlson I feel but Carlson had a longer more consistent career in college at a bigger more pressure packed program.  

 

The Vikings have a recent history of kicking issues and guys missing easy kicks on 3-4 years.  Will see if Bailey can break that trend.  My guess is could be the environment/special teams coaching...  

 

Mason Crosby was drafted in the 6th round by the Packers, was a real standout kicker at Colorado and had a super big time kicking leg, fine talent.  It would be flat out stupid for them to cut him I feel as a 6th round pick.  Sure Carlson is not near the type of talent he was, but still in terms of the draft alone, does seem stupid to draft a kicker then later cut them that same season or even before the season starts.  But is about the same when a players is picked mid to late in the draft and are cut as well...  Nice to get value but like Zimmer said just get UDFA that make the roster and maybe it will all balance out.

 

 

 

 

[RpMc]

13 minutes ago, Robb_K said:

Was Bailey checked out by team doctors Monday?  And did he do some kicking?  Or will he arrive Tuesday?  In any case, Even if he starts practicsing Wednesday, he should have enough work together with his snapper and holder to kick for The Vikings next Sunday.

He’s was flying in today. Nothing has been signed yet (otherwise we would have had to release another player. Robinson took Carlson’s spot on the roster). 

[Klomp]

The physical is probably first thing tomorrow morning.

 

[Klomp]

An interesting perspective:

Fun fact: Longwell missed a FG in each of his first two games in purple and didn't get cut.

[SteelKing728]

I really hope he works out. Someone has to break the pattern eventually.

[y*so*blu]

Best move they could have made. Bailey at least is a proven commodity and he knows how to handle the pressure. I am confident that he can step up to the plate and help us win, even if our ST coach is a useless dingbat who should be tied up and left in a North Minneapolis bus station.