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NFL General Random Thoughts Thread

11sanchez11

By 11sanchez11
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11sanchez11

11sanchez11

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Post stuff here that you don't think deserve a topic (or you don't want to make a topic about) but you want to talk about.

Here are mine to start:

There are two things people who think they are football smart say a lot. Keep in mind I don't really contemplate these things too much, just wanted to ask people what they thought of their validity. 

One that RBs aren't valuable (to draft really high in the draft and/or to pay a lot of money too). They bring up Saquan, Fornette, etc. where either their offenses still stink with them or they don't improve their offenses while they are on the field. But you can say that with every position except QB to a certain extent. Larry Fitz and Andre Johnson were on terrible offenses most of their career, Joe Thomas, Andrew Luck, etc, etc. And then on the flipside I watch the Rams and Gurley kinda dictates their whole offense. They seem to run playaction more than any team (I think the Pats do too, but that's just off the eye test). Also O-coordinators have to take some of the blame, they get un-creative using RBs too often.

And a QB on a rookie contract is the biggest advantage in the NFL. This one is probably more true but I think just having really good players in general on rookie contracts is a huge advantage that no one talks about. Like the Seahawks were the biggest example of the rookie QB thing but weren't Sherman, Wagner, Thomas, etc. also on rookie contracts?

I haven't looked into really of this stuff so I might be off base.

Also Matt McCrane is a good kicker FA and there seems to be kicker issues in general and I think he should have a job.

 

If mods want to close this thread so people make threads instead of posting in here, fine. But I always think of little things I don't know where to post and would never make a thread for, and I doubt there aren't other people the same way.

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stl4life07

stl4life07

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@11sanchez11 I like this thread. The Rams do run a lot of playaction. They also run a lot of 11 personnel (3 WR/1 TE/1 HB) sets. They ran it by far the most last season and they are running it a lot again and the league can’t stop it. McVay tries to make sure every play looks exactly the same. For example, he had a play that Cooks ended up being wide open in the flat, Jones battled the ball down to prevent the easy td. Later on in the game McVay called the same play but this time Higbee was wide open in the flat and Goff hit him for the easy td. Like McVay is a genius when it comes to play designs and putting stress on defenses. I see why he wanted Cooks so badly last offseason but unfortunately he couldn’t get him. Cooks has the abilities to do things in McVay offense that Watkins couldn’t do. 

Of the Rams though, can anyone believe that the two teams in the NFC that’s 2-0 are the Rams and the Bucs? I mean the Rams were the most likely but not the Bucs. I don’t see how they are doing this with a banged up defense and no running game. Not to mention their  backup is leading the way. That’s why the NFL is like no other sport. 

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Superman(DH23)

Superman(DH23)

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1 hour ago, 11sanchez11 said:

Post stuff here that you don't think deserve a topic (or you don't want to make a topic about) but you want to talk about.

Here are mine to start:

There are two things people who think they are football smart say a lot. Keep in mind I don't really contemplate these things too much, just wanted to ask people what they thought of their validity. 

One that RBs aren't valuable (to draft really high in the draft and/or to pay a lot of money too). They bring up Saquan, Fornette, etc. where either their offenses still stink with them or they don't improve their offenses while they are on the field. But you can say that with every position except QB to a certain extent. Larry Fitz and Andre Johnson were on terrible offenses most of their career, Joe Thomas, Andrew Luck, etc, etc. And then on the flipside I watch the Rams and Gurley kinda dictates their whole offense. They seem to run playaction more than any team (I think the Pats do too, but that's just off the eye test). Also O-coordinators have to take some of the blame, they get un-creative using RBs too often.

And a QB on a rookie contract is the biggest advantage in the NFL. This one is probably more true but I think just having really good players in general on rookie contracts is a huge advantage that no one talks about. Like the Seahawks were the biggest example of the rookie QB thing but weren't Sherman, Wagner, Thomas, etc. also on rookie contracts?

I haven't looked into really of this stuff so I might be off base.

Also Matt McCrane is a good kicker FA and there seems to be kicker issues in general and I think he should have a job.

 

If mods want to close this thread so people make threads instead of posting in here, fine. But I always think of little things I don't know where to post and would never make a thread for, and I doubt there aren't other people the same way.

When people talk about running backs and value they are talking about in relation to lower round picks.  Gurley is obviously very special, however much like AP hes the exception to the rule.  Zeke is a tremendous back but is he 4 rounds better than Jordan Howard.  Is Fournette 3 rounds better than Alvin Kamara.  Is Cmc 3 rounds better than Tarik Cohen.  Barkley really sticks out this year bc there are backs who were really close to him on the board who went much, much later, and on top of that the Giants are rolling out the carcass of Eli Manning every week when they could have had their pick of Darnold, Allen, or Rosen.   

As for the QB thing again it's a comparison issue.  MT10 was the 1st QB drafted of his class.  Before the rookie wage scale that would mean he was likely the highest paid player in the league.  Now hes playing for $5M whereas the going rate for an AVERAGE starting qb is $20M that's $15M in cap space available to allocate to other positions.  No other position has that kind of $ savings just for merely having a rookie instead of a veteran.  That's why it's the advantage it is.  

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FinSting

FinSting

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8 hours ago, DirtyDez said:

How do you rebuild a bad football team?  Asking for a friend...

I can tell you how the Fins learned NOT to rebuild a bad football team:

-- Don't pay QB money to a WR like Mike Wallace

-- Don't pay QB money to a DT like Ndonkadonka Suh

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RandyMossIsBoss

RandyMossIsBoss

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The idea behind RBs not being valuable is that you want to find a franchise cornerstone when you're faced with a top 5 or so pick, and RBs have a very short shelf life, in fact the shortest. Teams are very optimistic when drafting, but also realistic; when they are eyeing a linemen with a top 5 pick you have to imagine they are expecting 10-12 good years out of him, whereas with the the RB you'd have to be ignoring history to think you're getting more than 5-8 years. 

Do not mistake value with impact though, as RBs are often more impactful than any other one single player on the field, outside of the QB of course.

I do not see the point of your example involving Fitz, Andre, Joe Thomas etc. It is a team game, no single player is going to carry an offense, except maybe GOAT-esque QB play. You mention Gurley, but the Rams offense was terrible his first 2 years, and even he himself produced terribly in year 2. Not until there was competent playcalling, QB play, and OL play, was the Rams offense good. Think that can be said for almost every good offense you will see, and as a matter of fact, RB is the one spot of an offense that you can point to as relatively weak among top offenses over the years. 

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stl4life07

stl4life07

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9 hours ago, DirtyDez said:

How do you rebuild a bad football team?  Asking for a friend...

Get a boatload of picks, draft well, develop, and while you are rebuilding dont spend alot on free agency.

Thats what McVay and Fisher did when they took over a bad Rams team in 2012. They hit on the RG3 trade, then they traded down again in the same draft with the Cowboys in the 1st round to land stud DL Michael Brockers. From there it was alot of hits all throughout the draft year after year after year. The Rams didnt make big splashes in free agent for awhile and they kept trading all around the draft to get picks and finding gems. The Rams thought they had their franchise QB in Bradford but obviously it didnt work out then they made the big move up for Goff which was the 2nd missing piece. The biggest missing piece was finding the right coach. McVay was that guy and now the Rams are looking like they will be a great team for teams to have to deal with for a very long time. 

Its not as easy as it sounds because the draft can be hit or miss and the Browns have shown that even with having a ton of picks it doesnt guarantee success in drafts. Teams just have to have some luck in getting certain players to falling in their lap in the draft and having a great front office/scout team to know how to evaluate talent no matter what pick or round it is,

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