NFL General Random Thoughts Thread

[jrry32]

6 minutes ago, Nzd07 said:

Goff has a great arm, but let's be real - his efficiency metrics have been bolstered by those around him. Mcvay, a great line, and a top 5 WR corps. Honest question, what makes Goff better than Stafford or Cousins?

Stafford and Cousins are both good QBs. I guess the easy answer to the question is team success. Cousins has always been dogged, not by his production, but by his teams' failures. However, it strikes me as odd that people try to diminish Goff by talking about his supporting cast. Is McVay just some brilliant puppet master? Because Robert Woods wasn't a stud in Buffalo. Prior to McVay, none of the guys on the Rams OL in 2017 and 2018 were highly regarded outside of Whitworth. Gurley was great, but he was coming off a terrible year and certainly didn't boost Goff's play in 2016. Brandin Cooks is obviously good, but he was just as productive (if not more) with Goff than he was with Brees and Brady.

Basically, it seems like people chalk up the success of every single player on the Rams offense to McVay. McVay is an elite HC for sure. But it's a bit silly that Goff gets no credit for anything. What other successful QB is treated that way?

18 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

You sir are the one that is doing mental gymnastics. This is a what have you done for me lately league. And Goff has been pedestrian his last 16 games in a row.

He had an amazing stretch to start the season, no one is denying that. Then turned very pedestrian for an entire seasons worth of games.

Yes, this is a what have you done for me lately league. Lately, Goff posted a top 10 QB passing season, led his offense to 32.9 PPG, and helped his team reach the Super Bowl. Sit down, Matts, your hollow arguments have been exposed. Save your cherry picking for somebody who is naive enough to fall for it. I already blew your case to shreds. Feel free to read again:

58 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

LOL. I enjoy the mental gymnastics. Goff had a miserable three-game stretch against Detroit, Chicago, and Philly. He had a dominant first four games of the season. Funny how you want to omit his dominant start to the season while magnifying that three-game stretch. What did Goff do in the three games before that miserable three-game stretch? He put up a 68% completion percentage, 374 passing yards per game, 9 TDs to 1 Int, 8.8 YPA, a 115.4 passer rating, and the Rams scored 41.7 PPG. But he must have played three bad teams during that stretch, right? Nope, he played New Orleans (AT New Orleans), Seattle, and Kansas City. All three teams made the playoffs.

Spare me the cherry picking, Matts. You don't get to pick and choose what games count. You don't get to omit games that are inconvenient to your desired narrative. The numbers speak for themselves. And the claim that if you just omit a few games, Goff was consistently pedestrian is a lie. Let's demonstrate that. You get to omit the first four games of the season (his ridiculous start). I get to omit that miserable three-game stretch (DET, PHI, and CHI). We both get to omit the supposed outliers. What are Goff's numbers?

9 games

195/297

65.7%

2556 yards

8.6 YPA

20 TDs

4 Ints

109.5 Passer Rating

That shows how hollow your argument is, Matts. You got to remove the ridiculous start. I got to remove the terrible three-game stretch. And Goff's numbers actually improved. That tells us that your entire argument is based on that three-game stretch and is an attempt to magnify it by taking out the quarter of the season that acts as a counterweight. 

 

[Nzd07]

3 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Stafford has been in the league over a decade kind of an unfair comparison he's peaked imo especially on Detroit. 

Cousins just no he is and always will be a guy you have to hide and blend in to win and paid like a franchise qb no thanks. 

Goff is young and is entering year 3 in an offense has a lot more upside other than that they're very similar. 

I was talking about right now, though. Obviously I'd take Goff going forward due to age. And contract is irrelevant here.

[jrry32]

16 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

I'm not convinced you know what pedestrian means. Or "games in a row". 

He doesn't. His argument is swiss cheese at this point. It amuses me that Goff has a great year in 2017. Going into 2018, people tell us Rams fans that we should be concerned because it might have been a fluke year and Goff and McVay might get figured out. Goff then follows 2017 up with an even better 2018. Now, we should be concerned because Goff didn't play well in the playoffs taken as a whole, so that obviously proves that he's finally going to fall apart. It's quite clear to me what's going on. The people who never had a high opinion of Goff are continuing to grasp at straws to justify why they weren't wrong about Goff. But they were. We'll see how long they keep up the posturing and doubling down.

[Matts4313]

29 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

I'm not convinced you know what pedestrian means. Or "games in a row". 

Oh I am. Are you sure you understand the terms?

His last 16 games that he played he has an 88 QB rating, 61% comp, 24 TDs, 13 INTs which would put him some where in the 15-25 range for QBs. 

Those games are all in a row.

So are you debating that it is pedestrian? 

[jrry32]

5 minutes ago, Nzd07 said:

I was talking about right now, though. Obviously I'd take Goff going forward due to age. And contract is irrelevant here.

Well, Goff's production has been superior to Cousins'. Even if you look at Cousins' two best years in Washington with McVay, they were inferior to Goff's first two years with McVay in LA. But again, I think what would draw the biggest contrast is Cousins' lack of team success.

[Matts4313]

6 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Yes, this is a what have you done for me lately league. Lately, Goff posted a top 10 QB passing season, led his offense to 32.9 PPG, and helped his team reach the Super Bowl. Sit down, Matts, your hollow arguments have been exposed. Save your cherry picking for somebody who is naive enough to fall for it. I already blew your case to shreds. Feel free to read again:

It was a dumbarse argument the first time, why would I want to reread it? 

And I am not attempting to debate you. I am just stating facts. He was amazing for 4 games. Then he played pedestrian for the next 16. Over the entire 20 games he is probably somewhere in the top 10-15 range, but I am too lazy to look and obvi not that many QBs have played 20 games. 

[LeotheLion]

1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

Oh I am. Are you sure you understand the terms?

His last 16 games that he played he has an 88 QB rating, 61% comp, 24 TDs, 13 INTs which would put him some where in the 15-15 range for QBs. 

Those games are all in a row.

So are you debating that it is pedestrian? 

It's weird to say games in a row for cumulative stats. You make it sound like he was pedestrian for all 16 games. 

It's also a weird way to look at it. Had NRC been called for PI then you'd eliminate the SB and include the Vikings game. 

[Nzd07]

1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

Stafford and Cousins are both good QBs. I guess the easy answer to the question is team success. Cousins has always been dogged, not by his production, but by his teams' failures. However, it strikes me as odd that people try to diminish Goff by talking about his supporting cast. Is McVay just some brilliant puppet master? Because Robert Woods wasn't a stud in Buffalo. Prior to McVay, none of the guys on the Rams OL in 2017 and 2018 were highly regarded outside of Whitworth. Gurley was great, but he was coming off a terrible year and certainly didn't boost Goff's play in 2016. Brandin Cooks is obviously good, but he was just as productive (if not more) with Goff than he was with Brees and Brady.

Yeah, my comment wasn't really a slight as I think both of those guys are good QBs as well. When I say "special" - I'm talking about Aaron Rodgers, Russel Wilson, etc. - Those types of quartebacks where, even if the players around them are mediocre, you're not overly concerned because they are just that good. 

And I do think the public has overrated Goff a bit because of the Rams success. I mean, how many posts do you see on here where people are just dogging Cousins & Stafford because of their team records...

I still think he is a good quarterback with a heck of an arm, though. Not taking anything away from him. It's just that I don't see the next generational QB when I watch him.

[jrry32]

3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Oh I am. Are you sure you understand the terms?

His last 16 games that he played he has an 88 QB rating, 61% comp, 24 TDs, 13 INTs which would put him some where in the 15-15 range for QBs. 

Those games are all in a row.

So are you debating that it is pedestrian? 

LOL. He's right; you're wrong. Here's what you said: "Goff has been pedestrian his last 16 games in a row." You're trying to speak cumulatively. That's not what "in a row" means. Your phrasing means that Goff was pedestrian in each of the last 16 games. That's a laughable proposition. It's all semantics, but your phrasing was not remotely accurate. Now, back to your regularly scheduled cherry picking.

[jrry32]

2 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

It's weird to say games in a row for cumulative stats. You make it sound like he was pedestrian for all 16 games. 

It's also a weird way to look at it. Had NRC been called for PI then you'd eliminate the SB and include the Vikings game. 

Frankly, it's not "weird." It's intentional. He's simply being intellectually dishonest. It's why his argument is so easy to refute.

[Hunter2_1]

Who's this Garden Mushroom fella?

[jrry32]

5 minutes ago, Nzd07 said:

Yeah, my comment wasn't really a slight as I think both of those guys are good QBs as well. When I say "special" - I'm talking about Aaron Rodgers, Russel Wilson, etc. - Those types of quartebacks where, even if the players around them are mediocre, you're not overly concerned because they are just that good. 

And I do think the public has overrated Goff a bit because of the Rams success. I mean, how many posts do you see on here where people are just dogging Cousins & Stafford because of their team records...

I still think he is a good quarterback with a heck of an arm, though. Not taking anything away from him. It's just that I don't see the next generational QB when I watch him.

I'd like to find the public that overrates him. If anything, he's consistently shorted as a system QB who has McVay read defenses for him. 

[Dome]

Just now, Hunter2_1 said:

Who's this Garden Mushroom fella?

Madden is going to have to add a stat for Sex Appeal 

[thebestever6]

5 minutes ago, Nzd07 said:

still think he is a good quarterback with a heck of an arm, though. Not taking anything away from him. It's just that I don't see the next generational QB when I watch him.

I don't think he's overrated I just think generational is overused.  Tom Brady generational. Patty Mahomes Generational talent. Andrew Luck Generational prospect.

Jared Goff will be judged based off the resume of his accomplishment.

[Matts4313]

5 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

It's weird to say games in a row for cumulative stats. You make it sound like he was pedestrian for all 16 games. 

It's also a weird way to look at it. Had NRC been called for PI then you'd eliminate the SB and include the Vikings game. 

It just so happens though that we got one more data point for Goff and it was one more mediocre showing.  

And I said "in a row" because jrry wants to cherry pick 3 bad games out of the middle of the schedule. But jrry is the biggest Rams QB homer I have ever seen. He argued for like 10 years that Bradford was a good QB and worth the #1 over all. Dude is blind when it comes to Rams QBs.