2019 Draft Discussion

[JBURGE]

1 minute ago, Outpost31 said:

That's NOT just their rookie seasons. 

The PFF grade of the guards taken before this year reflect their CURRENT grade.  As in THIS year. 

The receivers taken in 2015 have their entire careers reflected in those numbers.  Cooper, in spite of lots of promise, is looking more and more like a bust.  In fact, not a single receiver taken in 2015 or 2016 looks like anything but a hard bust. 

The inside linebackers... Those are their CAREER numbers.  So you're looking at 131 career tackles out of Shaq Thompson over 3.25 years. 

For comparison, Blake Martinez in his second year (single year) matched Stephone Anthony's entire career in sacks, interceptions and was 3 tackles behind.  So in 16 games, Martinez had 3 less tackles than Anthony had in 40 games. 

I didn't read closely enough, my mistake

[MacReady]

Just now, JBURGE said:

I didn't read closely enough, my mistake

If Amari Cooper had 225 receptions, 3,100 yards and 19 touchdowns in his rookie year, my entire argument would be shot to **** forever. 

[vegas492]

21 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

If Amari Cooper had 225 receptions, 3,100 yards and 19 touchdowns in his rookie year, my entire argument would be shot to **** forever. 

They want to trade him...absent a new contract, what do you give for him?  ...assuming you want him.

I'm curious what value that first round WR has right now.

Guessing it is round 4 or worse.  Maybe round 3 if he agrees to a long term deal relative to other WR's who have produced numbers similar to his...so in other words, a low end #2 WR contract.

[Lodestar]

FWIW @Outpost31 if you include 2013 and 2014 in your breakdown, you can add Odell Beckham, DeAndre Hopkins, Mike Evans, Kyle Long, Travis Frederick, Ryan Shazier, CJ Mosely, Anthony Barr, Alec Ogletree to your list of non-impact players.

[Joe]

Oakland's OL is trash as well as their front-7, especially now that Mack is gone. I'd trade for Karl Joseph if I'm grabbing anyone from the Raiders. Cooper could be an excellent player on the right team. He's obviously not on the right team and if I'm Derek Carr, I'm thinking about asking for a trade...

[MacReady]

1 hour ago, Lodestar said:

FWIW @Outpost31 if you include 2013 and 2014 in your breakdown, you can add Odell Beckham, DeAndre Hopkins, Mike Evans, Kyle Long, Travis Frederick, Ryan Shazier, CJ Mosely, Anthony Barr, Alec Ogletree to your list of non-impact players.

Yeah, and zero Super Bowls, and an abundance of poorly-run teams.  

You really want to add Barr?

Also, don't just point out the good ones.  If you're going to extend it to 2013 and 2014, show the bad ones, too.  Also mention who was taken after them and tell me if you'd do the same thing again.

Only one on that list who was acceptable considering who else was available at more premium positions off the top of my head was Hopkins, and I think he was taken 24th.

[Norm]

1 hour ago, Joe said:

Oakland's OL is trash as well as their front-7, especially now that Mack is gone. I'd trade for Karl Joseph if I'm grabbing anyone from the Raiders. Cooper could be an excellent player on the right team. He's obviously not on the right team and if I'm Derek Carr, I'm thinking about asking for a trade...

And gruden would do it so he can get some 35 year old guy. 

[Cheesehawk]

On 9/19/2018 at 8:47 PM, spilltray said:

Are there any guys like Minkah Fitzpatrick or Derwin James this year? I'm looking for S who might be able to play in the slot.

Amani Hooker is looking like a great safety prospect that may declare after this season. Iowa DBs historically drop like bricks in the draft, so he may be a great option available in the later rounds. 

[Cheech]

3 hours ago, Cheesehawk said:

Amani Hooker is looking like a great safety prospect that may declare after this season. Iowa DBs historically drop like bricks in the draft, so he may be a great option available in the later rounds. 

I really think Hooker will stay another year.  He's not going to get a first or second round grade.  I don't remember the last Hawk to leave early that hasn't had a top grade.

[Cheesehawk]

2 hours ago, Cheech said:

I really think Hooker will stay another year.  He's not going to get a first or second round grade.  I don't remember the last Hawk to leave early that hasn't had a top grade.

Only ones I can think of is Dallas Clark and Riley Reiff. Could be a real good defense in 2019 with Anthony Nelson and another year for Epenesa

[Cheech]

10 hours ago, Cheesehawk said:

Only ones I can think of is Dallas Clark and Riley Reiff. Could be a real good defense in 2019 with Anthony Nelson and another year for Epenesa

I thought Nelson was a RS senior.  I could see him declaring before Hooker. 

But yeah, that front is still going to be talented.  Another year for those young linebackers and DB's, plus and adding Nixon to the middle of that D...  woofta.  Lots to be excites about.

[Cheesehawk]

1 hour ago, Cheech said:

I thought Nelson was a RS senior.  I could see him declaring before Hooker. 

But yeah, that front is still going to be talented.  Another year for those young linebackers and DB's, plus and adding Nixon to the middle of that D...  woofta.  Lots to be excites about.

Matt Nelson is a RS senior, A. Nelson is a junior. The strong DL class this year will hopefully keep A. Nelson around another season. 

[chillparsi1]

22 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

Yeah, and zero Super Bowls, and an abundance of poorly-run teams.  

You really want to add Barr?

Also, don't just point out the good ones.  If you're going to extend it to 2013 and 2014, show the bad ones, too.  Also mention who was taken after them and tell me if you'd do the same thing again.

Only one on that list who was acceptable considering who else was available at more premium positions off the top of my head was Hopkins, and I think he was taken 24th.

I think the “abundance of poorly run teams” might have more to do with the lack of Super Bowls...also if you want to use that argument then you have to admit that the Agholor pick was worth it. Which we both know isn’t true. 

Just pointing out a flawed argument. Not proponent of takeing a LB at this time

[MacReady]

1 hour ago, chillparsi1 said:

I think the “abundance of poorly run teams” might have more to do with the lack of Super Bowls...also if you want to use that argument then you have to admit that the Agholor pick was worth it. Which we both know isn’t true. 

Just pointing out a flawed argument. Not proponent of takeing a LB at this time

Nelson was picked by the Eagles fired GM.  Who was, in fact, fired.  It's not a flawed logic.  

Dolphins, Bears, Lions, Bengals and one other team I can't remember led the league over the past ten years in ILB/IOL/TE/WR first round selections.  I think it was the Titans.

What does that tell you?

[ThatJerkDave]

On 10/19/2018 at 11:59 AM, vegas492 said:

They want to trade him...absent a new contract, what do you give for him?  ...assuming you want him.

I'm curious what value that first round WR has right now.

Guessing it is round 4 or worse.  Maybe round 3 if he agrees to a long term deal relative to other WR's who have produced numbers similar to his...so in other words, a low end #2 WR contract.

I don't.  He is under contract for the rest of 2018, and 2019.  He is due ~$14 million dollars in 2019.  We will get Cobb and Allison back for the rest of this season.  Next season, we can assuredly get Allison back for less than $14 million, and our trio of rookies will now be second year players.  This season, Cooper has 10 more receptions and 70 more yards than MVS.  I'm not trying to say that Amari Cooper isn't good.  But it wouldn't be economical.  In 2019 Cooper will make more than any single season of Randall Cobb's bad contract.