2019 Draft Discussion

[Leader]

6 hours ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I feel like they do genuinely like Drew Lock and would take him at 30 if he's BPA by a mile.

Okay.....but I dont see it. The needs not that great and the talent at 30 should contribute to our 2019 record.

[Leader]

54 minutes ago, Golfman said:

He's Byron Leftwich part two. Kid has zero athletic ability and he's a sitting duck in the pocket. 

Hmmmm okay....but apparently he's got a decent arm.

50 TDs in 14 games is nothing to slouch about.

[Scoremore]

4 minutes ago, Leader said:

Okay.....but I dont see it. The needs not that great and the talent at 30 should contribute to our 2019 record.

We keep going around and around on this.   The need is great IMO.  When is the last time Rodgers finished a season healthy?  Lock could contribute to our 2019 record if Rodgers goes down again.  Honestly though the kid won't be ready for a few years of grooming.  Better than anything we have at back up QB.  Doesn't matter Lock will not make it to 30.   Might not be available at 12 either.   Don't think the Pack would take him at 12 he'd have to fall.  We may look at a day 3 guy.  Our back up QB situation just sucks.  

[Leader]

Just now, Scoremore said:

We keep going around and around on this.   The need is great IMO.  When is the last time Rodgers finished a season healthy?  Lock could contribute to our 2019 record if Rodgers goes down again.  Honestly though the kid won't be ready for a few years of grooming.  Better than anything we have at back up QB.  Doesn't matter Lock will not make it to 30.   Might not be available at 12 either.   Don't think the Pack would take him at 12 he'd have to fall.  We may look at a day 3 guy.  Our back up QB situation just sucks.  

Maybe you've been addressing this "around and around" but I havent......because I havent (and dont) feel the need is there to warrant investment in this draft class - or to put a finer point on it - a top round / high draft pick on it.

As for the "grooming" part - times have changed. From what I've read, the current CBA pretty much put an end to the "QB schools" GB used to employ.  Hence you're finding (perceived starting) QBs coming out of college and seeing the field relatively quick. 

In any case......respect your opinion, but I just dont think we should go that route this year. At 30.....give me Fant, Adderley, CGJ, some OT, Simmons (on the off chance he lasts that long....) - somebody who's gonna win some games for us this year and five years going forward.

 

[MacReady]

Just now, Leader said:

As for the "grooming" part - times have changed.

No, they haven't changed. 

Patrick Mahomes just won MVP in his first year as a starter. 

Everybody acts like we can't possibly do any better than Rodgers and that it would be stupid to draft a QB and I just can't help but wonder why. 

Aaron's amazing ability is there, yes, but his faults make him equal to 12 other quarterbacks in this league. 

I personally don't think we will draft a QB in one this year unfortunately.  Just looking at Aaron's contract, there's no way out. 

Next year though... Next year if a QB falls or we're in position to get one, sitting him for a year would allow us to trade Rodgers with a dead cap of only 11.5 million. 

Since next year there might not be an opportunity, I am willing to eat that year if we see top 10 talent in Drew Lock or Daniel Jones and get him at 30. 

If Aaron Rodgers turns it around under LaFleur, give Lock/Jones some garbage time to appeal to QB-needy teams and you can get a bigger return on your investment.  Probably 16th at worst if Lock/Jones look good.  If Rodgers continues sucking, let Lock/Jones sit for two years as the best backup in the league and trade Aaron Rodgers and you've instantly got the QB of your future already. 

It's not absurd to take a QB at 30 if their value is there. 

The league is not ending after 2019. 

[Isherwood]

Drew Lock doesn’t improve our backup QB situation in year 1, which is why any argument that says that pick improves our team this year is bunk to me. In my eyes, he’d flop just as hard as Kizer out there. And since we have 12 for at least another 4 years before we can reasonably get rid of him, and the 5th year option on Lock would cost a ton, it simply makes no sense to draft him highly. You would essentially be telling Rodgers that you either wasted a premium pick on not helping him win again OR you’re telling him you hope he doesn’t play for more than 3 more years and is replaced by Lock. Either way, it’s a bad idea. I’d lose a lot of confidence in Gute’s vision for the team. 

Ideally we want the pick we make for Rodgers’ heir apparent to not sit for more than 2 years. If anything, we let Rodgers sit a year too long for Favre. Don’t draft Rodgers’ heir until 2021 at the earliest IMO. You know, the way things are these days, the idea of drafting a guy to sit him for even one year is less and less realistic 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Isherwood

[Scoremore]

Boy this argument is eerily similar to 2005 when we drafted Rodgers.  What?  Why?  We need to get Farve some weapons and win now!  Probably the single best draft pick in Packers history.  We will probably have a decent season this year and be drafting late in 2020.  I will not be shocked if a top QB falls we grab him.  Problem is don't see that happening too many teams are looking for one this year.  Heard on Packers Wire the Packers are not interested in Rosen and I really wonder why.  Maybe because he already burned a year?  Seems like he'd be a perfect guy to grab.  

[Leader]

10 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Patrick Mahomes just won MVP in his first year as a starter.
It's not absurd to take a QB at 30 if their value is there.
The league is not ending after 2019. 

As for Mahomes - correct - which correlates with my comment that perceived starters are seeing the field faster (as rookies) than years past.
As for value at 30 - already stated I think the value of another player at that slot will exceed any QB from this class. As for 2019 being The Rapture for the NFL......I know. I didnt say that. Rather I feel whomever we draft at 30 should give us 5 years of on the field production .

 

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Leader

[Isherwood]

Just now, Scoremore said:

Boy this argument is eerily similar to 2005 when we drafted Rodgers.  What?  Why?  We need to get Farve some weapons and win now!  Probably the single best draft pick in Packers history.  We will probably have a decent season this year and be drafting late in 2020.  I will not be shocked if a top QB falls we grab him.  Problem is don't see that happening too many teams are looking for one this year.  Heard on Packers Wire the Packers are not interested in Rosen and I really wonder why.  Maybe because he already burned a year?  Seems like he'd be a perfect guy to grab.  

Wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t believe he’s a good leader. That’s a tough personality to crack. He’s a weird guy. He gets comped to Rodgers personality wise, but he doesn’t appear to be nearly as intelligent or charismatic. He’s like the dumb guy’s version of a smart guy. 

[Scoremore]

2 minutes ago, Isherwood said:

Drew Lock doesn’t improve our backup QB situation in year 1, which is why any argument that says that pick improves our team this year is bunk to me. In my eyes, he’d flop just as hard as Kizer out there. And since we have 12 for at least another 4 years before we can reasonably get rid of him, and the 5th year option on Lock would cost a ton, it simply makes no sense to draft him highly. You would essentially be telling Rodgers that you either wasted a premium pick on not helping him win again OR you’re telling him you hope he doesn’t play for more than 3 more years and is replaced by Lock. Either way, it’s a bad idea. I’d lose a lot of confidence in Gute’s vision for the team. 

Ideally we want the pick we make for Rodgers’ heir apparent to not sit for more than 2 years. If anything, we let Rodgers sit a year too long for Favre. Don’t draft Rodgers’ heir until 2021 at the earliest IMO. You know, the way things are these days, the idea of drafting a guy to sit him for even one year is less and less realistic 

Well you  make some good points however I'd take a rookie Lock over Kizer any day.  Kizer was downright putrid.  If Rodgers wasn't getting injured all the time I would agree with you.  However that has not been the case.  I don't trust Rodgers to make it through a season anymore.  We need a guy who can come in and win games if Aaron gets hurt again.  That guy is not on the roster.  Maybe we can grab 3 day guy who can assume the back up role.  Dunno.  I still want Rosen and would part with a 30 all day long to get him.

[Isherwood]

15 hours ago, Leader said:

CHTV Mock Draft:

Round 1 Pick 12: Trade!!! The Packers trade the 12th pick overall to Oakland for the 24th and 35th picks.

Round 1 Pick 24: Devin Bush LB, Michigan

Round 1 Pick 30: Trade!!! The Packers trade the 30th overall pick to Indianapolis for the 34th, 135th, and 164th picks.

Round 2 Pick 34 (From Indy): Juan Thornhill S, Virginia

Round 2 Pick 35: (From Oakland): Kaleb McGary OT, Washington

Round 2 Pick 44: Irv Smith Jr. TE, Alabama

Round 3 Pick 75: Chase Winovich Edge, Michigan

Round 4 Pick 114: Trade!!! The Packers trade picks 114, 150, and 185 to Washington for the 96th overall pick.

Round 3 Pick 96: Oshane Ximines Edge, Old Dominion

Round 4 Pick 118: David Long CB, Michigan

Round 4 Pick 135 (From Indy): Ryquell Armstead RB, Temple

Round 5 Pick 164 (From Indy): Armon Watts DT, Arkansas

Round 6 Pick 194: Stanley Morgan WR, Nebraska

Round 7 Pick 226: Derwin Gray OT, Maryland

Trades:

1. Pick 12 to Oakland for picks 24 and 35.

2. Pick 30 to Indianapolis for Picks 34, 135, and 164. 

3. Picks 114, 150, and 185 for Pick 96. 

Without knowing who was on the board when we traded down, it just sure looks and feels like we probably ran away from a lot of better talent at those spots. Bush probably won’t last to 24, but if he does, it just looks like we ran away from premium players to take an ILB. And that’s just one example. But that mocker has a history of being so enamored with trading around, I think he thinks it makes him look smarter?

[Isherwood]

1 minute ago, Scoremore said:

Well you  make some good points however I'd take a rookie Lock over Kizer any day.  Kizer was downright putrid.  If Rodgers wasn't getting injured all the time I would agree with you.  However that has not been the case.  I don't trust Rodgers to make it through a season anymore.  We need a guy who can come in and win games if Aaron gets hurt again.  That guy is not on the roster.  Maybe we can grab 3 day guy who can assume the back up role.  Dunno.  I still want Rosen and would part with a 30 all day long to get him.

The better option, for me, would be to sign some vet to come in and just get us through a couple games if 12 gets hurt. But that doesn’t seem to be something the Packers ever do, so maybe your thesis is more realistic 

[Scoremore]

3 minutes ago, Isherwood said:

Wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t believe he’s a good leader. That’s a tough personality to crack. He’s a weird guy. He gets comped to Rodgers personality wise, but he doesn’t appear to be nearly as intelligent or charismatic. He’s like the dumb guy’s version of a smart guy. 

Maybe that's it.  Or perhaps it's a smokescreen.  Everything I have heard leads me to believe he's a pretty cool cat.  Really handling the situation is AZ like a champ.  Guy has said and done all the right things.  He'll probably end up either in NY or Washington.  We will find out on draft day.  Way I figure it AZ will wait to deal him and see if anyone offers up a high pick.  No takers could be GB or NE with 30 or 32.  Depends on how the draft falls.  Figure 4 QB's in the first round this year.  I'll be pissed if NE gets him.  That I don't want to see.

[Leader]

5 minutes ago, Scoremore said:

Well you  make some good points however I'd take a rookie Lock over Kizer any day.  Kizer was downright putrid.  If Rodgers wasn't getting injured all the time I would agree with you.  However that has not been the case.  I don't trust Rodgers to make it through a season anymore.  We need a guy who can come in and win games if Aaron gets hurt again.  That guy is not on the roster.  Maybe we can grab 3 day guy who can assume the back up role.  Dunno.  I still want Rosen and would part with a 30 all day long to get him.

Hence, its time AR be enrolled in The Tom Brady School of QB Longevity.
You dont see Brady getting hurt all the time do you? Lets apply the Jordan Rule and get AR to "Be Like Tom"

Release the ball faster.
Hand off to his RBs more.
Dont try to lead the league in throw aways. No. Shoot for the league lead in check downs executed.

[Scoremore]

1 minute ago, Leader said:

Hence, its time AR be enrolled in The Tom Brady School of QB Longevity.
You dont see Brady getting hurt all the time do you? Lets apply the Jordan Rule and get AR to "Be Like Tom"

Release the ball faster.
Hand off to his RBs more.
Dont try to lead the league in throw aways. No. Shoot for the league lead in check downs executed.

Yes yes and yes.   Hopefully he's learned his lesson.  Rodgers needs to do exactly that.